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the last session of the day today is

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entitled public perceptions priorities

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and solar system exploration

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my name is heidi hamill i am a planetary

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scientist

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i am

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this is the time for the women to take

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over the panels i hope you notice that

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so we are going to get into this here

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our first speaker today will be linda

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billings who is a fellow at george

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washington university school of media

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and public affairs right here in

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washington

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she does communications research she has

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her phd in mass communication from

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indiana university and quite a diverse

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field of research including science and

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risk communication social studies of

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science and the rhetoric of science and

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space we've certainly been hearing some

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rhetoric today

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she has a lot of experience in many

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different areas including lots of

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editorial work and today she will be

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talking to us about a very interesting

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scientific urban myth

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about

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the uh

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presence of uh materials in that have

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come back from the moon or not

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hey slides

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applies to be cute in the meantime uh

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for those of you watching on the web uh

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i want to say uh that

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this is a story that depends on a lot of

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details

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and i'm gonna try to go back to my there

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we go

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yes thank you

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thank you jonathan

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and the details are not going to be in

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my talk because we don't have a lot of

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time but they are in my paper and i will

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email the paper to anybody who wants to

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read it

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billingslinda1 gmail.com

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billingslindawana gmail.com and that

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goes for everybody in the audience as

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well

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so

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my story is about a survivor or not the

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story of s midas on the move s midas is

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streptococcus midas bacteria that

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probably all of us have

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living in our mouths right now and i'll

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get to that in a minute

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the story of how nasa technicians found

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a viable streptococcus midas bacteria

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inside equipment retrieved from the moon

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and returned to earth

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by astronauts has been replicated widely

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and reported as fact for decades

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but it appears to be false

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and i'm going to try to explain my case

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today

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more than 30 years after the story was

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first told in 1970

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it may be difficult to prove it

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definitively true or definitively false

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however the evidence now points to false

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in large part thanks to the unearthing

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of old visual records i'll make the case

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that the claim that esmitas traveled

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from earth to the moon returned to earth

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and came back to life in a lab does not

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qualify as scientific truth

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this story has relevance to astrobiology

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planetary protection planetary

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exploration and of course the history

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as most people know all too well

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bacteria are hardy little buggers the

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existence of extremophilic microbial

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life an exotic concept just a few

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decades ago is now common knowledge

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we know that some microbes can form

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spores dormant non-reproductive

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structures that enable them to survive

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harsh conditions

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thanks in part to 50 years of exobiology

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and astrobiology research we know that

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microbes can thrive in virtually every

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sort of earth environment known to

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science and that some can survive

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radical changes in environmental

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conditions for years centuries or some

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meanwhile planetary exploration has

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revealed that mars and the jovian moons

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europa ganymede and callisto may have

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liquid water environments that could

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support life as we know it maybe

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enceladus too we've heard about this

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from previous speakers for missions to

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these targets planetary protection the

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practice of protecting solar system

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bodies from contamination by earth life

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and protecting earth from possible life

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forms that may be returned from other

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solar system bodies has become a

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complicated enterprise and john

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sarkisian asked a question at the end of

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the last session that related to

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planetary protection and nasa's current

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planetary protection officer cassie

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conley is here to answer any questions

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about that

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so let's get on with our story

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here are some and dare i say it facts

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about esmitas

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this bacterium is part of the auraflora

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of mammals

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and there it is i'll introduce you to it

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it does not form spores it lives

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optimally at temperatures between 30 and

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35 degrees celsius which is

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approximately 85 to 95 degrees

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fahrenheit and it's commonly found in

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the human mouth

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so think about this

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did s midas could esmitas travel from

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earth to the moon survive more than two

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years of exposure there only to revive

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once brought back to earth

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and why were scientists and engineers

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even thinking about such possibilities

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in the 60s and 70s

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even before nasa came to be the

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international science community was

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discussing the possibility of e.t life

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and steps that might be taken to prevent

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in the early days of apollo nasa planned

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for the quarantine of astronauts and

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material samples returned from the moon

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a lunar receiving laboratory was built

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at the manned space center in houston

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now johnson space center to contain and

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i'm going to give you a little hint of

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in april 1967 nasa launched surveyor 3

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to the moon it made a soft landing

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operated for 14 days then shut down

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mission accomplished

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two years and seven months later nasa

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on november 19 1969

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pete conrad and alan bean landed their

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lunar module about 163 meters away from

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where surveyor 3 sat in the ocean of

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storms

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on november 20 the astronauts retrieved

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several pieces of equipment from

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surveyor including its camera they

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stashed the camera in a sample pack

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zipped it shut brought it back to the

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lunar module stowed it on board and took

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the crew returned to earth on november

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24 photos that splashed down show they

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are not wearing their protective

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biological isolation garments

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once the astronauts removed from their

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capsule to an aircraft carrier they don

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their protective garments and entered an

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isolation unit aboard the carrier the

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pack containing the surveyor camera was

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retrieved from the capsule and delivered

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to the lunar receiving lab where it was

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stored at room temperature in a teflon

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on january 8 1970

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lunar

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examining the camera microbial analysis

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came first as soon as the camera was

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opened working in a clean room

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environment they performed standard

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microbial assays

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and after four days of incubation one

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sample apparently produced viable

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visible microbial growth the apparently

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microblading sample had been taken from

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foam embedded inside the camera

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the isolate was identified with

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confirmation from the u.s public health

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service as streptococcus midas

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in march 1971 at the second lunar

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science conference in houston

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this is where this slide comes in

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the results of this analysis were

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reported and later published in

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conference proceedings f j mitchell a

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u.s air force major assigned to the

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preventive medicine division of nasa's

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manned space center and r.h ellis a

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contractor working at the center claimed

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that the s midas that had been cultured

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in the lab had traveled to the moon on

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surveyor 3 survived on the lunar surface

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for two and a half years and once

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returned to earth revived and reproduced

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this is a quote from their paper

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decontamination measures taken before

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the surveyor launch did not eliminate

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the possibility that the spacecraft

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carried organisms to the moon

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they described the conduct of the

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surveyor three camera camera analysis in

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excruciating detail take my word for it

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and i have a lot of those details in my

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paper

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protocol established for the aerobic and

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anaerobic analyses contained a system of

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redundancy and cross checks designed to

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identify suspected lab contamination

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only one sampled surface a one cubic

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millimeter piece of foam inside the

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extreme precautions were taken at all

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times they said in their paper during

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the analysis to prevent any handling

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errors which might have caused

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the available data indicates

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their conclusion that s midas was

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isolated from the phone sample and

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suggests that the bacterium was

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deposited on their surveyor 3tv camera

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before spacecraft launched

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at the very same meeting

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m.d nidal ms favero and rh green

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presented a paper in which they reported

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on the results of their microbial

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sampling of returned surveyor iii

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electrical cabling

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nidal and green were with the jet

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propulsion laboratory and faveros with

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the u.s public health department their

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findings raised some questions about

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mitchell and ellis's report keep in mind

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these two papers were both presented at

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the same conference and all these

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guys

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knew each other

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middle fiverro and green chose to

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examine a piece of electrical wire

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bundling running from the surveyor

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camera to another part of the spacecraft

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because earlier studies had shown that a

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high level of microbial contamination

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was associated with wiring bundles

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if during the actual sampling of the

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wires they observed and i'm quoting here

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a contaminant were accidentally

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introduced it would be impossible to

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separate it from a lunar survivor thus

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it was necessary they said to perform

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several simulated assays with a piece of

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sterile wiring bundle before the lunar

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sample was acid which they did

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prior to opening the sealed container

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containing the surveyor 3 cable on other

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parts technicians discovered that it had

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leaked there was concern whether

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airborne bacterial contamination of the

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exterior wraps would penetrate to the

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interior of the bundle their work in the

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lab showed that if airborne bacteria did

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pass into the container through the leak

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the wiring bundle wraps would protect

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the wires beneath it from contamination

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their results showed quote that no

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viable microorganisms were recovered

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from that portion of surveyor 3 cable

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that was sampled

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the implication was that if no viable

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microbes were found on these protected

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wiring samples then it would not be

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likely that any viable microbes would be

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found elsewhere on the camera

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nasa published verbatim the findings of

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both mitchell and ellis and nidal eddal

285
00:11:08,630 --> 00:11:04,560
as reported at the 1970 conference in a

286
00:11:12,470 --> 00:11:10,310
there's a couple pictures

287
00:11:14,630 --> 00:11:12,480
of the camera

288
00:11:16,630 --> 00:11:14,640
and another picture and thanks to john

289
00:11:18,230 --> 00:11:16,640
rummel who's now in the back of the room

290
00:11:19,750 --> 00:11:18,240
uh who got me started on this

291
00:11:22,389 --> 00:11:19,760
investigation and then he'll come into

292
00:11:25,030 --> 00:11:22,399
the story pretty soon

293
00:11:27,030 --> 00:11:25,040
in 1974 the prestigious peer review

294
00:11:29,190 --> 00:11:27,040
journal annual review of microbiology

295
00:11:30,949 --> 00:11:29,200
published a papal by jared taylor of

296
00:11:32,870 --> 00:11:30,959
johnson space center's life sciences

297
00:11:35,110 --> 00:11:32,880
directorate which he was formerly with

298
00:11:36,870 --> 00:11:35,120
the preventive medicine division there

299
00:11:39,990 --> 00:11:36,880
that reported on advances in space

300
00:11:41,750 --> 00:11:40,000
microbiology in this paper taylor cited

301
00:11:44,150 --> 00:11:41,760
the lunar science conference papers by

302
00:11:47,030 --> 00:11:44,160
mitchell and ellis and by nidal at all

303
00:11:48,949 --> 00:11:47,040
in his text however taylor described

304
00:11:50,790 --> 00:11:48,959
only the findings of mitchell and ellis

305
00:11:52,870 --> 00:11:50,800
as follows quote

306
00:11:55,110 --> 00:11:52,880
components of the surveyor 3 spacecraft

307
00:11:57,590 --> 00:11:55,120
which had resided on the moon for 2.5

308
00:11:59,269 --> 00:11:57,600
years were returned during the apollo 12

309
00:12:01,590 --> 00:11:59,279
mission and analyzed for the presence of

310
00:12:03,590 --> 00:12:01,600
viable microorganisms except for the

311
00:12:05,670 --> 00:12:03,600
presence of s midas which was considered

312
00:12:07,829 --> 00:12:05,680
by the investigators to have been

313
00:12:10,150 --> 00:12:07,839
embedded within the camera body before

314
00:12:11,829 --> 00:12:10,160
it left the earth no viable microbes

315
00:12:14,150 --> 00:12:11,839
were recovered from any of the tested

316
00:12:16,470 --> 00:12:14,160
components end quote

317
00:12:18,629 --> 00:12:16,480
over the next three decades according to

318
00:12:21,030 --> 00:12:18,639
science citation index taylor's paper

319
00:12:22,790 --> 00:12:21,040
was cited in 31 peer-reviewed journal

320
00:12:25,110 --> 00:12:22,800
papers in publications ranging from

321
00:12:27,110 --> 00:12:25,120
icarus and infection and immunity to

322
00:12:28,150 --> 00:12:27,120
microbiology and molecular biology

323
00:12:30,069 --> 00:12:28,160
reviews

324
00:12:31,750 --> 00:12:30,079
microbiological research and trends in

325
00:12:33,829 --> 00:12:31,760
biotechnology

326
00:12:35,910 --> 00:12:33,839
meanwhile in places ranging from nasa

327
00:12:37,590 --> 00:12:35,920
fact sheets wikipedia entries and

328
00:12:39,829 --> 00:12:37,600
websites ranging from credible to

329
00:12:41,670 --> 00:12:39,839
dubious the account of how as midas

330
00:12:43,509 --> 00:12:41,680
survived for 27 months on the moon and

331
00:12:47,590 --> 00:12:43,519
came back to life on earth were widely

332
00:12:52,550 --> 00:12:50,230
after 30 years somebody decided to look

333
00:12:54,550 --> 00:12:52,560
into the story during his second stint

334
00:12:57,990 --> 00:12:54,560
as nasa's planetary protection officer

335
00:13:00,470 --> 00:12:58,000
from 1998 to 2006 john rummel a

336
00:13:03,910 --> 00:13:00,480
microbial ecologist by training decided

337
00:13:05,350 --> 00:13:03,920
to investigate the survivor claim

338
00:13:07,269 --> 00:13:05,360
he talked with people knowledgeable

339
00:13:09,110 --> 00:13:07,279
about the surveyor camera analysis who

340
00:13:10,550 --> 00:13:09,120
had indicated the clean room procedures

341
00:13:11,829 --> 00:13:10,560
for the analysis were less than

342
00:13:13,910 --> 00:13:11,839
stringent

343
00:13:15,990 --> 00:13:13,920
i began doing research for planetary

344
00:13:18,470 --> 00:13:16,000
protection in 2002

345
00:13:20,470 --> 00:13:18,480
in a 2002 memo responding to a query

346
00:13:22,870 --> 00:13:20,480
from me about the story of us midas as a

347
00:13:24,949 --> 00:13:22,880
lunar survivor which i'd stumbled across

348
00:13:25,990 --> 00:13:24,959
on the web and doing some routine

349
00:13:28,069 --> 00:13:26,000
research

350
00:13:30,150 --> 00:13:28,079
rommel said the claim is almost

351
00:13:31,829 --> 00:13:30,160
certainly incorrect there was no

352
00:13:36,310 --> 00:13:31,839
peer-reviewed paper with that result at

353
00:13:40,150 --> 00:13:38,310
rommel told me that in 1998 he had

354
00:13:41,829 --> 00:13:40,160
gotten in touch with jpl surveyor

355
00:13:44,069 --> 00:13:41,839
project scientist leonard jaffe about

356
00:13:45,509 --> 00:13:44,079
the survivor claim and that jaffe had

357
00:13:47,910 --> 00:13:45,519
told him there was a film of the

358
00:13:50,629 --> 00:13:47,920
procedure to sample the camera and that

359
00:13:52,550 --> 00:13:50,639
the samplers had broken sterile protocol

360
00:13:55,189 --> 00:13:52,560
inadvertently by placing their sampling

361
00:13:57,910 --> 00:13:55,199
tool outside the sterile hood

362
00:13:59,269 --> 00:13:57,920
jaffee passed along to rummel a message

363
00:14:01,269 --> 00:13:59,279
he had received from his surveyor

364
00:14:03,829 --> 00:14:01,279
project colleague richard green

365
00:14:06,230 --> 00:14:03,839
remember rh green

366
00:14:08,550 --> 00:14:06,240
of the nettle favera and green paper

367
00:14:09,590 --> 00:14:08,560
about the lrl analysis of the surveyor 3

368
00:14:11,350 --> 00:14:09,600
camera

369
00:14:13,269 --> 00:14:11,360
green had told jaffe quote you were

370
00:14:15,509 --> 00:14:13,279
correct the sampling of the camera was

371
00:14:17,910 --> 00:14:15,519
suspect i took movie film the entire

372
00:14:19,350 --> 00:14:17,920
procedure and it shows up on it as well

373
00:14:20,710 --> 00:14:19,360
i believe i still have the film

374
00:14:22,790 --> 00:14:20,720
somewhere in storage if it would be

375
00:14:24,790 --> 00:14:22,800
helpful i could try and find it

376
00:14:28,629 --> 00:14:24,800
that's a long story too

377
00:14:30,949 --> 00:14:28,639
at an astrobiology conference in 2004

378
00:14:33,590 --> 00:14:30,959
rummel discussed mitchell and ellis's

379
00:14:35,030 --> 00:14:33,600
s-midas survivor claim and he asserted

380
00:14:37,110 --> 00:14:35,040
that the growth they had reported was

381
00:14:39,670 --> 00:14:37,120
the product of lab contamination and he

382
00:14:41,509 --> 00:14:39,680
made a good case a 2004 paper on

383
00:14:43,350 --> 00:14:41,519
biological contamination studies of

384
00:14:44,870 --> 00:14:43,360
lunar landing sites co-authored by

385
00:14:46,790 --> 00:14:44,880
rummel and published in the

386
00:14:48,550 --> 00:14:46,800
international journal of astrobiology

387
00:14:51,670 --> 00:14:48,560
also challenged the claim in a similar

388
00:14:56,230 --> 00:14:54,310
in 2006 i began exploring the story of s

389
00:14:58,389 --> 00:14:56,240
midas on the moon in earnest searching

390
00:15:00,790 --> 00:14:58,399
the web for other accounts

391
00:15:03,030 --> 00:15:00,800
on a nasa goddard web page i found a

392
00:15:04,870 --> 00:15:03,040
following science question of the week

393
00:15:06,629 --> 00:15:04,880
provided by planetary scientist david

394
00:15:08,790 --> 00:15:06,639
williams of nasa's national space

395
00:15:10,949 --> 00:15:08,800
science data center the question can

396
00:15:13,189 --> 00:15:10,959
anything from earth live on the moon the

397
00:15:15,670 --> 00:15:13,199
answer yes

398
00:15:17,350 --> 00:15:15,680
scientists the the s midas claim was

399
00:15:19,910 --> 00:15:17,360
reported here as fact

400
00:15:21,750 --> 00:15:19,920
and quote from this webpage scientists

401
00:15:23,509 --> 00:15:21,760
concluded that the s midas was inside

402
00:15:25,509 --> 00:15:23,519
the camera originally and had managed to

403
00:15:27,269 --> 00:15:25,519
survive on the moon

404
00:15:29,590 --> 00:15:27,279
at the same time i found a much more

405
00:15:31,110 --> 00:15:29,600
detailed account of the survivor story

406
00:15:34,470 --> 00:15:31,120
on a marshall space flight center

407
00:15:36,710 --> 00:15:34,480
website science at nasa dated 1998 and

408
00:15:38,550 --> 00:15:36,720
headlined earth microbes on the moon

409
00:15:40,629 --> 00:15:38,560
three decades after apollo 12 a

410
00:15:43,269 --> 00:15:40,639
remarkable colony of lunar survivors

411
00:15:45,590 --> 00:15:43,279
revisited this account reports on quote

412
00:15:47,350 --> 00:15:45,600
an inadvertent stowaway streptococcus

413
00:15:49,749 --> 00:15:47,360
midas the only known survivor of

414
00:15:51,350 --> 00:15:49,759
unprotected space travel how this

415
00:15:53,269 --> 00:15:51,360
remarkable feat of survival was

416
00:15:55,749 --> 00:15:53,279
accomplished only by strep bacteria

417
00:15:57,590 --> 00:15:55,759
remains speculative but the significance

418
00:15:59,509 --> 00:15:57,600
of a living organism surviving for

419
00:16:01,670 --> 00:15:59,519
nearly three years in the harsh lunar

420
00:16:03,670 --> 00:16:01,680
environment may only now be placed in

421
00:16:05,829 --> 00:16:03,680
perspective after three decades of the

422
00:16:07,910 --> 00:16:05,839
biological revolution in understanding

423
00:16:09,670 --> 00:16:07,920
life in its favored conditions talk

424
00:16:11,430 --> 00:16:09,680
about rhetoric

425
00:16:13,670 --> 00:16:11,440
another official nasa record found

426
00:16:16,069 --> 00:16:13,680
online the apollo 12 lunar surface

427
00:16:18,069 --> 00:16:16,079
journal surveyor crater and surveyor 3

428
00:16:20,069 --> 00:16:18,079
includes a transcript of astronauts

429
00:16:21,670 --> 00:16:20,079
conrad and beans conversation while

430
00:16:23,509 --> 00:16:21,680
around the lunar surface plus

431
00:16:25,430 --> 00:16:23,519
post-flight commentary from them and

432
00:16:27,910 --> 00:16:25,440
others in which they address the story

433
00:16:29,670 --> 00:16:27,920
of us midas on the moon in post-flight

434
00:16:31,829 --> 00:16:29,680
comments conrad said

435
00:16:33,189 --> 00:16:31,839
quote the thing that had the bacteria in

436
00:16:35,030 --> 00:16:33,199
it was the television camera the

437
00:16:37,590 --> 00:16:35,040
styrofoam in between the inner and outer

438
00:16:39,030 --> 00:16:37,600
shells there's a report on that i always

439
00:16:41,189 --> 00:16:39,040
thought the most significant thing that

440
00:16:43,670 --> 00:16:41,199
we ever found on the whole god damn moon

441
00:16:46,150 --> 00:16:43,680
was that little bacteria who came

442
00:16:48,230 --> 00:16:46,160
back and lived and nobody ever said

443
00:16:50,710 --> 00:16:48,240
squat about it

444
00:16:52,069 --> 00:16:50,720
anyone who knows pete conrad

445
00:16:54,470 --> 00:16:52,079
would recognize that quote and that

446
00:16:57,590 --> 00:16:54,480
quote was widely replicated i i think in

447
00:16:59,269 --> 00:16:57,600
large part because of its color

448
00:17:01,350 --> 00:16:59,279
in his post-flight comments journal

449
00:17:03,269 --> 00:17:01,360
contributor ken glover noted quote

450
00:17:05,110 --> 00:17:03,279
there's this distinct possibility that

451
00:17:06,470 --> 00:17:05,120
the microbes found in the surveyor tv

452
00:17:09,429 --> 00:17:06,480
camera got there as a result of

453
00:17:10,949 --> 00:17:09,439
post-flight contamination as of 2004 it

454
00:17:13,350 --> 00:17:10,959
seems generally accepted that the

455
00:17:14,949 --> 00:17:13,360
history of this particular microbe found

456
00:17:16,630 --> 00:17:14,959
in the surveyor three parts will never

457
00:17:19,350 --> 00:17:16,640
be resolved

458
00:17:21,590 --> 00:17:19,360
i also found this is kind of disturbing

459
00:17:23,990 --> 00:17:21,600
a classroom teacher sheet for grades 9

460
00:17:25,829 --> 00:17:24,000
through 12 called all about microbes

461
00:17:27,590 --> 00:17:25,839
developed for a nasa sponsored project

462
00:17:30,070 --> 00:17:27,600
which is now defunct called nasa

463
00:17:31,669 --> 00:17:30,080
explorers and it repeated this survivor

464
00:17:34,150 --> 00:17:31,679
story as fact citing the marshall

465
00:17:36,230 --> 00:17:34,160
website as a source of information

466
00:17:38,710 --> 00:17:36,240
there were many many other sources and

467
00:17:40,950 --> 00:17:38,720
beyond the universe of nasa.gov i found

468
00:17:43,750 --> 00:17:40,960
further accounts of the fact that s

469
00:17:46,390 --> 00:17:43,760
midas was a survivor at reference.com at

470
00:17:50,470 --> 00:17:46,400
wikipedia on a space.com reader forum

471
00:17:54,310 --> 00:17:52,870
in 2006 i began contacting people at

472
00:17:55,830 --> 00:17:54,320
johnson space center who might know

473
00:17:58,230 --> 00:17:55,840
something about the surveyor camera

474
00:18:00,470 --> 00:17:58,240
analysis rummel told me judy alton a

475
00:18:02,870 --> 00:18:00,480
curator with the jsc astro materials

476
00:18:04,950 --> 00:18:02,880
office reportedly had a list of film and

477
00:18:07,110 --> 00:18:04,960
photographic records of the analysis so

478
00:18:10,230 --> 00:18:07,120
i first contacted her she found her

479
00:18:12,070 --> 00:18:10,240
handwritten list provided it to us

480
00:18:13,590 --> 00:18:12,080
her colleague carlton allen referred us

481
00:18:15,430 --> 00:18:13,600
to john lindsay with the lunar and

482
00:18:16,710 --> 00:18:15,440
planetary institute center for advanced

483
00:18:18,470 --> 00:18:16,720
space studies for help with our

484
00:18:20,150 --> 00:18:18,480
investigation

485
00:18:22,150 --> 00:18:20,160
lindsay advised that he was quote part

486
00:18:24,630 --> 00:18:22,160
of the preliminary examination team on

487
00:18:26,070 --> 00:18:24,640
apollo 12 so have some feel for the way

488
00:18:27,750 --> 00:18:26,080
things went and would enjoy working on

489
00:18:30,230 --> 00:18:27,760
the data once again

490
00:18:31,830 --> 00:18:30,240
i put my research on hold in late 2006

491
00:18:33,750 --> 00:18:31,840
when rummel stepped down as planetary

492
00:18:36,710 --> 00:18:33,760
protection officer to take over the nasa

493
00:18:38,390 --> 00:18:36,720
astrobiology program in 2008 rommel left

494
00:18:39,909 --> 00:18:38,400
nasa and john lindsay passed away

495
00:18:41,590 --> 00:18:39,919
unrelated events

496
00:18:43,669 --> 00:18:41,600
nonetheless rummel will still seem

497
00:18:45,990 --> 00:18:43,679
determined to prove if possible that s

498
00:18:47,350 --> 00:18:46,000
midas survivor was actually s midas lab

499
00:18:49,190 --> 00:18:47,360
contamination

500
00:18:51,430 --> 00:18:49,200
ultimately rummel alston and don

501
00:18:52,870 --> 00:18:51,440
morrison completed an investigation into

502
00:18:55,590 --> 00:18:52,880
the matter and rummel reported their

503
00:18:57,029 --> 00:18:55,600
results at a workshop in 2011.

504
00:18:58,710 --> 00:18:57,039
rommel said that according to nasa

505
00:19:00,950 --> 00:18:58,720
records the surveyor 3 camera reached a

506
00:19:03,029 --> 00:19:00,960
maximum temperature of around 70 degrees

507
00:19:04,950 --> 00:19:03,039
celsius on the moon

508
00:19:06,950 --> 00:19:04,960
nasa records also showed that esmidis

509
00:19:09,830 --> 00:19:06,960
quote was isolated from the apollo 12

510
00:19:12,230 --> 00:19:09,840
crew in routine microbial testing the

511
00:19:14,070 --> 00:19:12,240
team's investigation verified that no

512
00:19:16,789 --> 00:19:14,080
viable microbes were isolated from the

513
00:19:19,190 --> 00:19:16,799
surveyor 3 cables or foam

514
00:19:21,029 --> 00:19:19,200
or for many apollo surface samples

515
00:19:23,029 --> 00:19:21,039
excuse me return to earth and that no

516
00:19:25,909 --> 00:19:23,039
viable microbes were isolated from 10 of

517
00:19:28,230 --> 00:19:25,919
11 sampling locations 32 of 33 samples

518
00:19:30,310 --> 00:19:28,240
within the camera body what clinched the

519
00:19:32,870 --> 00:19:30,320
trio's investigation however was that in

520
00:19:35,190 --> 00:19:32,880
2010 they found the 16 millimeter film

521
00:19:36,230 --> 00:19:35,200
records of the 1970s surveyor camera

522
00:19:38,630 --> 00:19:36,240
analysis

523
00:19:41,029 --> 00:19:38,640
quote in in john john's words

524
00:19:42,549 --> 00:19:41,039
languishing in maryland

525
00:19:44,470 --> 00:19:42,559
all three researchers viewed and

526
00:19:46,870 --> 00:19:44,480
analyzed the film and again in john

527
00:19:48,870 --> 00:19:46,880
rumble's words it wasn't pretty

528
00:19:50,630 --> 00:19:48,880
the film showed lab technicians working

529
00:19:52,710 --> 00:19:50,640
in short sleeves with only their mouths

530
00:19:54,630 --> 00:19:52,720
and noses covered by masks at some

531
00:19:56,470 --> 00:19:54,640
points they were working with bare hands

532
00:19:58,070 --> 00:19:56,480
as rummel observed after all of that how

533
00:19:59,029 --> 00:19:58,080
can you be sure where your microbes came

534
00:20:01,190 --> 00:19:59,039
from

535
00:20:03,110 --> 00:20:01,200
more specifically morrison pinpointed an

536
00:20:05,350 --> 00:20:03,120
anomaly in camera foam sampling which

537
00:20:08,549 --> 00:20:05,360
i've detailed in my paper

538
00:20:10,310 --> 00:20:08,559
as to general protocol judy alton noted

539
00:20:12,149 --> 00:20:10,320
i will add that the participants were

540
00:20:14,310 --> 00:20:12,159
wearing short sleeve scrubs thus arms

541
00:20:16,149 --> 00:20:14,320
were exposed also that the scrub shirt

542
00:20:17,830 --> 00:20:16,159
tails were higher than the flow bench

543
00:20:21,430 --> 00:20:17,840
level and would act as a bellows for

544
00:20:24,310 --> 00:20:21,440
particulates from inside the shirt

545
00:20:26,310 --> 00:20:24,320
on may 2 2011 space.com reported on

546
00:20:27,990 --> 00:20:26,320
rummel adele's findings describing the

547
00:20:30,070 --> 00:20:28,000
story of s midas survivor as a

548
00:20:31,669 --> 00:20:30,080
long-lived bit of apollo moon landing

549
00:20:36,310 --> 00:20:31,679
folklore that now appears to be a

550
00:20:40,630 --> 00:20:38,789
oh i missed some slides now here's a

551
00:20:42,630 --> 00:20:40,640
lovely picture it's a little blurry

552
00:20:45,190 --> 00:20:42,640
because of course this is a still still

553
00:20:46,789 --> 00:20:45,200
imagery taken from 16 millimeter film

554
00:20:48,070 --> 00:20:46,799
but you can see

555
00:20:51,750 --> 00:20:48,080
get a good idea of what we're talking

556
00:20:55,430 --> 00:20:53,510
the contestation or shall we say

557
00:20:56,789 --> 00:20:55,440
refutation of mitchell analysis claim

558
00:20:58,230 --> 00:20:56,799
has had some effect on the public

559
00:21:00,710 --> 00:20:58,240
records so far

560
00:21:02,549 --> 00:21:00,720
while in 2006 i found numerous websites

561
00:21:05,110 --> 00:21:02,559
replicating the story of s midas

562
00:21:07,029 --> 00:21:05,120
survivor in 2012 i found only a few that

563
00:21:09,669 --> 00:21:07,039
were sticking with the story

564
00:21:11,750 --> 00:21:09,679
in 2006 i contacted david williams at

565
00:21:14,870 --> 00:21:11,760
goddard to advise that the claim he

566
00:21:16,390 --> 00:21:14,880
reported as fact was contested in 2012 i

567
00:21:17,590 --> 00:21:16,400
looked for this page and it no longer

568
00:21:20,549 --> 00:21:17,600
exists

569
00:21:23,029 --> 00:21:20,559
in 2012 at reference.com

570
00:21:26,230 --> 00:21:23,039
online entry for surveyor 3 at the very

571
00:21:27,909 --> 00:21:26,240
same url that i checked in 2006 i found

572
00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:27,919
a completely different story about us

573
00:21:31,029 --> 00:21:29,520
midas on the moon

574
00:21:31,990 --> 00:21:31,039
and now the story reported that the

575
00:21:34,310 --> 00:21:32,000
claim

576
00:21:36,310 --> 00:21:34,320
of s midas surviving on the moon and

577
00:21:38,950 --> 00:21:36,320
coming back to life on earth has been

578
00:21:41,590 --> 00:21:38,960
cited as providing credence to the idea

579
00:21:43,909 --> 00:21:41,600
of interplanetary panspermia however

580
00:21:45,430 --> 00:21:43,919
nasa officials now no longer support

581
00:21:46,470 --> 00:21:45,440
this claim

582
00:21:47,990 --> 00:21:46,480
now

583
00:21:49,830 --> 00:21:48,000
i believe even today because i just

584
00:21:53,029 --> 00:21:49,840
checked this about a week ago nasa

585
00:21:55,110 --> 00:21:53,039
marshall signs that nasa entry of 1998

586
00:21:56,230 --> 00:21:55,120
has not been revised since it was posted

587
00:21:58,789 --> 00:21:56,240
there

588
00:22:00,630 --> 00:21:58,799
thus in 2012 at least one nasa.gov

589
00:22:02,710 --> 00:22:00,640
webpage continues to report without

590
00:22:04,870 --> 00:22:02,720
question or qualification

591
00:22:06,390 --> 00:22:04,880
that s midas did indeed survive for two

592
00:22:09,350 --> 00:22:06,400
and a half years on the moon come back

593
00:22:11,110 --> 00:22:09,360
to earth and come back to life

594
00:22:12,950 --> 00:22:11,120
so it remains to be seen we'll have to

595
00:22:13,990 --> 00:22:12,960
wait a few more years to see how long it

596
00:22:16,149 --> 00:22:14,000
will take

597
00:22:18,950 --> 00:22:16,159
to correct the public record

598
00:22:21,350 --> 00:22:18,960
it's still with us on the september 14

599
00:22:23,830 --> 00:22:21,360
edition just last month of national

600
00:22:26,070 --> 00:22:23,840
public radio science friday show ira

601
00:22:27,909 --> 00:22:26,080
fledo asked cassie connolly nasa's

602
00:22:29,909 --> 00:22:27,919
current planetary protection officer

603
00:22:32,470 --> 00:22:29,919
about the bioassays of the surveyor

604
00:22:33,990 --> 00:22:32,480
camera parts and cassie said quote it

605
00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:34,000
turns out that the way they were taking

606
00:22:37,590 --> 00:22:35,760
those samples was about the same level

607
00:22:39,430 --> 00:22:37,600
of sterility as you do in surgery so

608
00:22:41,270 --> 00:22:39,440
they had short sleeve scrubs they didn't

609
00:22:42,950 --> 00:22:41,280
really have good masks so the samples

610
00:22:45,110 --> 00:22:42,960
that were contaminated were taken at the

611
00:22:46,950 --> 00:22:45,120
very end of this whole sampling process

612
00:22:49,110 --> 00:22:46,960
and just after somebody breathed right

613
00:22:50,710 --> 00:22:49,120
on that location on the camera so it

614
00:22:54,789 --> 00:22:50,720
probably was contamination after the

615
00:22:59,750 --> 00:22:56,789
there's another picture

616
00:23:01,350 --> 00:22:59,760
just to show up close and personal

617
00:23:03,110 --> 00:23:01,360
to wrap up

618
00:23:05,430 --> 00:23:03,120
this story shows how a claim became a

619
00:23:07,669 --> 00:23:05,440
widely accepted fact without passing the

620
00:23:09,110 --> 00:23:07,679
conventional test of peer review

621
00:23:10,870 --> 00:23:09,120
how initial counter claims that

622
00:23:13,590 --> 00:23:10,880
challenge the status of the first claim

623
00:23:15,510 --> 00:23:13,600
is fact failed to register how a later

624
00:23:17,430 --> 00:23:15,520
and perhaps more vigorous counter claim

625
00:23:19,510 --> 00:23:17,440
ultimately led to a solid case against

626
00:23:21,990 --> 00:23:19,520
the first claim and how consequently the

627
00:23:27,830 --> 00:23:22,000
first claim is losing its status as fact

628
00:23:30,950 --> 00:23:29,430
rommel at all are interested in this

629
00:23:32,549 --> 00:23:30,960
story as a case that illustrates the

630
00:23:33,990 --> 00:23:32,559
importance of stringent compliance with

631
00:23:36,149 --> 00:23:34,000
planetary protection policy and

632
00:23:38,230 --> 00:23:36,159
procedures and as we've heard from other

633
00:23:39,750 --> 00:23:38,240
speakers in recent years microbiology

634
00:23:41,590 --> 00:23:39,760
research has revealed the extent to

635
00:23:43,510 --> 00:23:41,600
which humans are teeming with microbial

636
00:23:45,269 --> 00:23:43,520
life and the prospect of sending humans

637
00:23:47,190 --> 00:23:45,279
to extraterrestrial environments that

638
00:23:48,710 --> 00:23:47,200
might be habitable for earth life

639
00:23:50,310 --> 00:23:48,720
greatly complicates the task of

640
00:23:52,870 --> 00:23:50,320
compliance with planetary protection

641
00:23:55,110 --> 00:23:52,880
requirements nasa clean room practices

642
00:23:57,029 --> 00:23:55,120
have evolved considerably since the days

643
00:23:58,789 --> 00:23:57,039
of the surveyor analysis where clean

644
00:24:00,549 --> 00:23:58,799
room technicians wore short sleeves to

645
00:24:02,549 --> 00:24:00,559
the present day planetary protection

646
00:24:04,390 --> 00:24:02,559
requirement of bunny suits

647
00:24:06,470 --> 00:24:04,400
there you go i think this was from

648
00:24:08,630 --> 00:24:06,480
genesis john is that right

649
00:24:10,390 --> 00:24:08,640
the genesis crew

650
00:24:12,070 --> 00:24:10,400
today the scientific consensus is that

651
00:24:13,669 --> 00:24:12,080
it is not likely that terrestrial

652
00:24:15,590 --> 00:24:13,679
microbes could survive and thrive on the

653
00:24:17,510 --> 00:24:15,600
moon and this consensus is reflected in

654
00:24:19,430 --> 00:24:17,520
planetary protection policy for missions

655
00:24:22,149 --> 00:24:19,440
to the moon which designates those

656
00:24:23,909 --> 00:24:22,159
missions category two forays to a body

657
00:24:25,510 --> 00:24:23,919
of significant interest relative to the

658
00:24:27,110 --> 00:24:25,520
process of chemical evolution in the

659
00:24:29,110 --> 00:24:27,120
origin of life but where there is only

660
00:24:30,950 --> 00:24:29,120
remote chance that contamination carried

661
00:24:33,269 --> 00:24:30,960
by a spacecraft could compromise future

662
00:24:34,870 --> 00:24:33,279
investigations

663
00:24:37,029 --> 00:24:34,880
for category two missions forward

664
00:24:38,149 --> 00:24:37,039
contamination is not a concern however

665
00:24:39,510 --> 00:24:38,159
there is a concern that an

666
00:24:41,029 --> 00:24:39,520
extraterrestrial environment is where

667
00:24:43,909 --> 00:24:41,039
liquid water might exist and we've

668
00:24:45,430 --> 00:24:43,919
discussed many of them today

669
00:24:47,750 --> 00:24:45,440
it could be possible for terrestrial

670
00:24:49,430 --> 00:24:47,760
microbes to thrive and replicate

671
00:24:51,269 --> 00:24:49,440
and then forward contamination for

672
00:24:53,350 --> 00:24:51,279
missions to those targets is a serious

673
00:24:55,669 --> 00:24:53,360
concern and planetary protection

674
00:24:57,350 --> 00:24:55,679
requirements are strict so for planetary

675
00:24:58,630 --> 00:24:57,360
protection this case illustrates among

676
00:25:00,789 --> 00:24:58,640
other things that microbes are

677
00:25:02,950 --> 00:25:00,799
everywhere at least on earth clean room

678
00:25:05,430 --> 00:25:02,960
procedures for microbial assays can't be

679
00:25:07,669 --> 00:25:05,440
too careful and meticulous and complete

680
00:25:10,470 --> 00:25:07,679
records of such procedures must be made

681
00:25:12,149 --> 00:25:10,480
and preserved for astrobiology this case

682
00:25:14,149 --> 00:25:12,159
illustrates how difficult it will be to

683
00:25:16,149 --> 00:25:14,159
verify any claims of the detection of

684
00:25:18,149 --> 00:25:16,159
extraterrestrial life something else

685
00:25:20,149 --> 00:25:18,159
we've been talking about today consider

686
00:25:21,909 --> 00:25:20,159
the mars science laboratory nasa's first

687
00:25:24,390 --> 00:25:21,919
astrobiology mission to mars since

688
00:25:26,789 --> 00:25:24,400
biking now roving around gale crater

689
00:25:28,470 --> 00:25:26,799
seeking evidence of habitability

690
00:25:30,230 --> 00:25:28,480
questions will continue to arise from

691
00:25:31,830 --> 00:25:30,240
the press and the public and the science

692
00:25:33,830 --> 00:25:31,840
community about the possibility of

693
00:25:35,909 --> 00:25:33,840
finding life on mars or in other

694
00:25:38,230 --> 00:25:35,919
extraterrestrial environments

695
00:25:40,310 --> 00:25:38,240
and how will we ever know for sure

696
00:25:41,909 --> 00:25:40,320
for the history and sociology of science

697
00:25:43,909 --> 00:25:41,919
this case shows how a claim that was

698
00:25:46,230 --> 00:25:43,919
never subjected to formal peer review

699
00:25:48,230 --> 00:25:46,240
became and remained a fact for decades

700
00:25:50,310 --> 00:25:48,240
before it was seriously challenged and

701
00:25:52,070 --> 00:25:50,320
how it took visual evidence to finally

702
00:25:54,310 --> 00:25:52,080
make the case that multiple sources had

703
00:25:56,310 --> 00:25:54,320
made verbally it shows how the paper

704
00:25:58,470 --> 00:25:56,320
trails that we researchers like to

705
00:26:00,630 --> 00:25:58,480
excavate for information are now

706
00:26:02,870 --> 00:26:00,640
intermingled with digital documentation

707
00:26:05,190 --> 00:26:02,880
that can be altered at any time without

708
00:26:07,269 --> 00:26:05,200
leaving any detectable evidence of an

709
00:26:09,510 --> 00:26:07,279
alteration and it shows something that

710
00:26:17,350 --> 00:26:09,520
historians already know that the record

711
00:26:17,360 --> 00:26:36,789
thank you are there questions for linda

712
00:26:40,630 --> 00:26:39,029
innumerable extremophiles that he has

713
00:26:42,470 --> 00:26:40,640
collected all around and i wonder what

714
00:26:43,750 --> 00:26:42,480
his comments were on this

715
00:26:45,510 --> 00:26:43,760
i did not speak to him for this

716
00:26:49,669 --> 00:26:45,520
particular paper because his name did

717
00:26:53,750 --> 00:26:51,590
uh i did not speak to him doing research

718
00:26:55,190 --> 00:26:53,760
for this uh particular paper because his

719
00:26:56,870 --> 00:26:55,200
name did not show up in any of these

720
00:26:58,870 --> 00:26:56,880
records he just retired from national

721
00:27:01,190 --> 00:26:58,880
yeah he's still active so you might want

722
00:27:02,710 --> 00:27:01,200
to do that yes there are lots and lots

723
00:27:05,990 --> 00:27:02,720
of people i'm sure historians in the

724
00:27:07,350 --> 00:27:06,000
audience realize how much more i can do

725
00:27:09,909 --> 00:27:07,360
to fill out this story this is just

726
00:27:11,830 --> 00:27:09,919
scratching the surface i did not

727
00:27:13,590 --> 00:27:11,840
sit down and do a formal interview with

728
00:27:15,269 --> 00:27:13,600
anybody i mean i had some conversations

729
00:27:16,470 --> 00:27:15,279
on the phone and emailed me i would love

730
00:27:18,389 --> 00:27:16,480
to talk to you

731
00:27:20,389 --> 00:27:18,399
okay thank you

732
00:27:22,710 --> 00:27:20,399
yeah i will point out that it is

733
00:27:24,870 --> 00:27:22,720
possible for streptococcus midas to

734
00:27:26,950 --> 00:27:24,880
survive on the surface of moon for two

735
00:27:33,029 --> 00:27:26,960
and a half years if an astronaut is

736
00:27:38,230 --> 00:27:34,789
yeah moon

737
00:27:39,830 --> 00:27:38,240
your talk is very instructive indeed and

738
00:27:40,950 --> 00:27:39,840
this is showing

739
00:27:44,389 --> 00:27:40,960
um

740
00:27:45,350 --> 00:27:44,399
well how easily the different microbes

741
00:27:47,830 --> 00:27:45,360
adapt

742
00:27:48,870 --> 00:27:47,840
to the hostile environment in this

743
00:27:49,990 --> 00:27:48,880
regard

744
00:27:53,510 --> 00:27:50,000
i just

745
00:27:56,789 --> 00:27:53,520
would like to ask you you know we try to

746
00:27:59,669 --> 00:27:56,799
sterilize many martial missions which we

747
00:28:02,389 --> 00:27:59,679
sent okay but it's impossible to

748
00:28:05,750 --> 00:28:02,399
sterilize for reliably completely and

749
00:28:09,590 --> 00:28:05,760
some of them crashed when just landing

750
00:28:11,830 --> 00:28:09,600
on mars so the microbes possibly

751
00:28:14,710 --> 00:28:11,840
easily adapted to the natural

752
00:28:17,510 --> 00:28:14,720
environment on mars and even in the

753
00:28:20,190 --> 00:28:17,520
dynamical very dynamical conditions in

754
00:28:23,350 --> 00:28:20,200
the martian atmosphere just easily

755
00:28:24,950 --> 00:28:23,360
proliferated over the merchant

756
00:28:27,590 --> 00:28:24,960
that the whole pope

757
00:28:29,830 --> 00:28:27,600
so the question is whether we need to

758
00:28:32,149 --> 00:28:29,840
take care about sterilization for the

759
00:28:35,750 --> 00:28:32,159
future mission what we are going to find

760
00:28:38,630 --> 00:28:35,760
out some kind of the mutations or just

761
00:28:41,190 --> 00:28:38,640
completely original terrestrial life

762
00:28:43,430 --> 00:28:41,200
forms what do you think about that

763
00:28:46,630 --> 00:28:43,440
it's a serious challenge in the search

764
00:28:48,310 --> 00:28:46,640
for evidence of life elsewhere to know

765
00:28:50,310 --> 00:28:48,320
whether it's

766
00:28:52,710 --> 00:28:50,320
life we've never seen before

767
00:28:55,110 --> 00:28:52,720
our life that used to be like us that as

768
00:28:56,870 --> 00:28:55,120
you mentioned might have evolved changed

769
00:29:00,230 --> 00:28:56,880
mutated

770
00:29:02,070 --> 00:29:00,240
this is why the more we learn about um

771
00:29:04,389 --> 00:29:02,080
planetary environments potential

772
00:29:06,950 --> 00:29:04,399
habitability and the more we learn about

773
00:29:08,470 --> 00:29:06,960
life as as david grinspoon and others

774
00:29:11,990 --> 00:29:08,480
have discussed today

775
00:29:12,789 --> 00:29:12,000
um and how how weird life really is i

776
00:29:14,389 --> 00:29:12,799
mean

777
00:29:16,149 --> 00:29:14,399
it's just amazing to me it's

778
00:29:18,070 --> 00:29:16,159
mind-blowing to me i'm not a biologist

779
00:29:20,710 --> 00:29:18,080
obviously um

780
00:29:22,470 --> 00:29:20,720
but the more difficult it will be for us

781
00:29:25,110 --> 00:29:22,480
to determine how to make sure that when

782
00:29:26,870 --> 00:29:25,120
we send that uh melter who showed the

783
00:29:28,389 --> 00:29:26,880
slide of the the nuclear oh that was

784
00:29:30,789 --> 00:29:28,399
last night at national geographic the

785
00:29:33,510 --> 00:29:30,799
melt probe yeah through the the icy

786
00:29:35,190 --> 00:29:33,520
surface of europa uh that if we find

787
00:29:36,630 --> 00:29:35,200
anything it there it's not something

788
00:29:38,830 --> 00:29:36,640
that we brought with us it's an

789
00:29:44,549 --> 00:29:38,840
extremely

790
00:29:45,990 --> 00:29:44,559
have i see vicky hipkin who's uh the

791
00:29:47,830 --> 00:29:46,000
queen of planetary protection for the

792
00:29:49,510 --> 00:29:47,840
canadian space agency she's biting her

793
00:29:51,350 --> 00:29:49,520
lip you know so

794
00:29:55,269 --> 00:29:51,360
it's a very very hard job to do but

795
00:30:00,710 --> 00:29:55,279
people are are working at it thank you

796
00:30:05,350 --> 00:30:03,110
my only comment about that linda is that

797
00:30:08,470 --> 00:30:05,360
you know somehow your work has been able

798
00:30:11,029 --> 00:30:08,480
to get this out of the web and why can't

799
00:30:13,190 --> 00:30:11,039
they get rid of the story about the mars

800
00:30:15,750 --> 00:30:13,200
being you know the size of the full moon

801
00:30:17,830 --> 00:30:15,760
out which comes around every august like

802
00:30:20,470 --> 00:30:17,840
clockwork if you could work on that one

803
00:30:23,669 --> 00:30:20,480
next i'd really appreciate it

804
00:30:25,909 --> 00:30:23,679
um our next talk by william mccauley um

805
00:30:28,470 --> 00:30:25,919
instant science space probes planetary

806
00:30:30,389 --> 00:30:28,480
exploration and television

807
00:30:33,190 --> 00:30:30,399
unfortunately had to be withdrawn there

808
00:30:34,950 --> 00:30:33,200
were visa troubles uh for uh william

809
00:30:37,510 --> 00:30:34,960
mccauley and he can't be here but his

810
00:30:39,990 --> 00:30:37,520
paper is quite interesting and if you

811
00:30:43,590 --> 00:30:40,000
are interested in the use of visual

812
00:30:45,430 --> 00:30:43,600
imagery in space the history of how

813
00:30:47,750 --> 00:30:45,440
visual imagery came to be such a big

814
00:30:49,269 --> 00:30:47,760
part of this space program i suggest

815
00:30:53,990 --> 00:30:49,279
that you do track that paper down

816
00:30:58,789 --> 00:30:56,470
and our next topic

817
00:31:02,070 --> 00:30:58,799
is one that's near and dear to my heart

818
00:31:05,750 --> 00:31:02,080
because i happen to be in charge of the

819
00:31:08,789 --> 00:31:05,760
hubble space telescope in 1994

820
00:31:12,310 --> 00:31:08,799
when a comet fragmented comet shimakura

821
00:31:15,110 --> 00:31:12,320
v9 crashed into jupiter creating massive

822
00:31:18,230 --> 00:31:15,120
explosions on the planet which was

823
00:31:20,549 --> 00:31:18,240
headline news for a full week

824
00:31:21,590 --> 00:31:20,559
and how many of you saw that i'm just

825
00:31:23,509 --> 00:31:21,600
curious

826
00:31:25,990 --> 00:31:23,519
yeah a lot of you did and that comes

827
00:31:27,750 --> 00:31:26,000
into the next story which is entitled

828
00:31:29,830 --> 00:31:27,760
killer asteroids

829
00:31:33,590 --> 00:31:29,840
popular depictions and public policy

830
00:31:41,509 --> 00:31:33,600
influence by laura delgado lopez

831
00:31:45,669 --> 00:31:43,509
hello everyone i'm really happy to be

832
00:31:47,350 --> 00:31:45,679
here and before i begin i would just

833
00:31:49,509 --> 00:31:47,360
like to

834
00:31:51,350 --> 00:31:49,519
acknowledge that this paper came as a

835
00:31:53,190 --> 00:31:51,360
collaboration between myself and dwayne

836
00:31:56,070 --> 00:31:53,200
day from the nrc whom you've heard um

837
00:31:57,509 --> 00:31:56,080
earlier this morning and um so now let's

838
00:31:59,909 --> 00:31:57,519
just move right on to it killer

839
00:32:02,470 --> 00:31:59,919
asteroids we know the story so well

840
00:32:04,950 --> 00:32:02,480
basically we find out usually that pure

841
00:32:06,789 --> 00:32:04,960
chance that this that a monstrous

842
00:32:08,310 --> 00:32:06,799
asteroid is heading you know hurling

843
00:32:10,310 --> 00:32:08,320
toward the planet and is threatening

844
00:32:11,909 --> 00:32:10,320
civilization and you know do we have

845
00:32:13,590 --> 00:32:11,919
time to do anything can we do anything

846
00:32:14,389 --> 00:32:13,600
about it and so the story goes and bruce

847
00:32:15,590 --> 00:32:14,399
willis

848
00:32:19,110 --> 00:32:15,600
you know makes an appearance or

849
00:32:21,590 --> 00:32:19,120
something um but what we may not know is

850
00:32:23,750 --> 00:32:21,600
that this narrative is actually um goes

851
00:32:25,590 --> 00:32:23,760
back much further than we may believe

852
00:32:27,190 --> 00:32:25,600
and so when we look at all these

853
00:32:29,669 --> 00:32:27,200
examples some of which i will mention

854
00:32:31,190 --> 00:32:29,679
today we have to ask ourselves you know

855
00:32:33,190 --> 00:32:31,200
what is behind this narrative was it

856
00:32:34,549 --> 00:32:33,200
prompted by real events can it tell us

857
00:32:36,950 --> 00:32:34,559
anything about

858
00:32:38,630 --> 00:32:36,960
real policy impacts or public opinion

859
00:32:40,470 --> 00:32:38,640
about it

860
00:32:42,630 --> 00:32:40,480
and so to begin with i'll tell you a

861
00:32:43,830 --> 00:32:42,640
little bit about the long and explosive

862
00:32:45,909 --> 00:32:43,840
history

863
00:32:47,590 --> 00:32:45,919
and in the paper which you may have an

864
00:32:48,710 --> 00:32:47,600
opportunity to see

865
00:32:50,789 --> 00:32:48,720
there is a

866
00:32:52,710 --> 00:32:50,799
there's a list at the end of a bunch of

867
00:32:54,870 --> 00:32:52,720
examples that we were able to find some

868
00:32:57,750 --> 00:32:54,880
in other languages as you see here

869
00:32:59,669 --> 00:32:57,760
but just to show that this has been

870
00:33:01,990 --> 00:32:59,679
around a long time

871
00:33:04,950 --> 00:33:02,000
the earliest example we found was a

872
00:33:07,750 --> 00:33:04,960
french novel published in 1890 taro la

873
00:33:09,830 --> 00:33:07,760
fondumonde and it was republished again

874
00:33:11,350 --> 00:33:09,840
in the 30s and made into a movie in the

875
00:33:13,110 --> 00:33:11,360
90s

876
00:33:15,990 --> 00:33:13,120
and it was again one of the very

877
00:33:17,509 --> 00:33:16,000
earliest examples and also at the time

878
00:33:19,590 --> 00:33:17,519
and the time you know we see the 40s the

879
00:33:21,590 --> 00:33:19,600
50s also some other movies and books

880
00:33:24,149 --> 00:33:21,600
exploring the issue

881
00:33:26,389 --> 00:33:24,159
in non-fiction we see some work looking

882
00:33:29,909 --> 00:33:26,399
at asteroids comments and other

883
00:33:34,230 --> 00:33:29,919
planetary bodies you know as a threat of

884
00:33:36,470 --> 00:33:34,240
a potential impact and what that meant

885
00:33:39,350 --> 00:33:36,480
and so

886
00:33:41,590 --> 00:33:39,360
what those early events many of them

887
00:33:44,310 --> 00:33:41,600
came as a result of probably came as a

888
00:33:46,710 --> 00:33:44,320
result of an early impact event um in

889
00:33:48,789 --> 00:33:46,720
the 20th century the 1908 tunguska

890
00:33:50,310 --> 00:33:48,799
impact in siberia there are literally

891
00:33:51,990 --> 00:33:50,320
hundreds of works both fiction and

892
00:33:54,870 --> 00:33:52,000
non-fiction exploring exactly what

893
00:33:57,190 --> 00:33:54,880
happened there and even as far back as

894
00:33:59,269 --> 00:33:57,200
excuse me as recently as 2010 in the

895
00:34:02,470 --> 00:33:59,279
national research council report

896
00:34:04,549 --> 00:34:02,480
on on asteroids and new earth objects

897
00:34:07,029 --> 00:34:04,559
more recent research of what it is that

898
00:34:09,909 --> 00:34:07,039
happened that day was actually come come

899
00:34:13,349 --> 00:34:09,919
to come to bear um other important

900
00:34:14,950 --> 00:34:13,359
events that kind of help drive these

901
00:34:17,430 --> 00:34:14,960
narratives

902
00:34:19,909 --> 00:34:17,440
include the 1980 alvarez hypothesis that

903
00:34:21,430 --> 00:34:19,919
for the first time links to cataclysmic

904
00:34:24,629 --> 00:34:21,440
events that led to extinction of the

905
00:34:25,669 --> 00:34:24,639
dinosaurs with an asteroid impact and as

906
00:34:28,389 --> 00:34:25,679
as

907
00:34:30,550 --> 00:34:28,399
haiti mentioned the 1994 shoemaker-levy

908
00:34:32,470 --> 00:34:30,560
9 impact that again captured the

909
00:34:35,669 --> 00:34:32,480
attention of the world and so as a

910
00:34:38,869 --> 00:34:35,679
result particularly in the 90s we see so

911
00:34:40,950 --> 00:34:38,879
many so many of these examples over 25

912
00:34:43,829 --> 00:34:40,960
in our survey alone

913
00:34:46,069 --> 00:34:43,839
also during that time planetary research

914
00:34:47,510 --> 00:34:46,079
had a role to play because

915
00:34:49,589 --> 00:34:47,520
the research that

916
00:34:51,270 --> 00:34:49,599
from from several of the spacecraft that

917
00:34:52,790 --> 00:34:51,280
we had sent out were just confirming the

918
00:34:54,550 --> 00:34:52,800
role that impacts have had in

919
00:34:57,030 --> 00:34:54,560
transforming not just to face but also

920
00:34:58,230 --> 00:34:57,040
the composition of other planets and

921
00:35:00,470 --> 00:34:58,240
also that

922
00:35:03,270 --> 00:35:00,480
um it became clear that our own planet

923
00:35:05,109 --> 00:35:03,280
had had impacts before and that those

924
00:35:08,390 --> 00:35:05,119
things were not just a thing of the past

925
00:35:10,710 --> 00:35:08,400
that they could continue happening

926
00:35:11,829 --> 00:35:10,720
they continued these examples continued

927
00:35:14,069 --> 00:35:11,839
i think

928
00:35:16,230 --> 00:35:14,079
events such as the debate over the

929
00:35:19,910 --> 00:35:16,240
non-negligible possibility of impact of

930
00:35:21,670 --> 00:35:19,920
asteroids such as apophis or ag5 helped

931
00:35:24,470 --> 00:35:21,680
feed the sustaining narrative there's

932
00:35:26,150 --> 00:35:24,480
also the misinterpretation of the mayan

933
00:35:28,950 --> 00:35:26,160
prophecy that the world was going to end

934
00:35:29,910 --> 00:35:28,960
in 2012. that prompted more examples

935
00:35:31,829 --> 00:35:29,920
even

936
00:35:34,630 --> 00:35:31,839
this year in 2012.

937
00:35:35,910 --> 00:35:34,640
and so this survey and some of the

938
00:35:38,230 --> 00:35:35,920
examples that i've

939
00:35:39,670 --> 00:35:38,240
selected here are not exhaustive i'm

940
00:35:41,829 --> 00:35:39,680
sure that if we keep looking we will

941
00:35:43,829 --> 00:35:41,839
find more examples in maybe in other

942
00:35:45,349 --> 00:35:43,839
languages and other countries but just

943
00:35:48,230 --> 00:35:45,359
to show that

944
00:35:49,990 --> 00:35:48,240
this was not born with armageddon and

945
00:35:52,150 --> 00:35:50,000
deep impact which are the examples that

946
00:35:54,630 --> 00:35:52,160
very easily come to mind

947
00:35:56,390 --> 00:35:54,640
but in fact this narrative that has been

948
00:35:58,870 --> 00:35:56,400
very present throughout history and that

949
00:36:02,390 --> 00:35:58,880
was just strengthened by this events

950
00:36:03,750 --> 00:36:02,400
that captured the attention of the world

951
00:36:06,150 --> 00:36:03,760
and so um

952
00:36:08,390 --> 00:36:06,160
science fiction studies research will

953
00:36:10,069 --> 00:36:08,400
suggest to us that if we see a

954
00:36:11,589 --> 00:36:10,079
sustaining narrative it should tell us

955
00:36:13,510 --> 00:36:11,599
something about

956
00:36:15,670 --> 00:36:13,520
real deep-rooted perceptions in the

957
00:36:17,990 --> 00:36:15,680
public and so if we look at all these

958
00:36:20,150 --> 00:36:18,000
examples we have to ask ourselves well

959
00:36:21,750 --> 00:36:20,160
um are people really concerned about

960
00:36:24,390 --> 00:36:21,760
asteroid impacts

961
00:36:26,390 --> 00:36:24,400
and the fact is they're not at least um

962
00:36:27,990 --> 00:36:26,400
at least what little research exists on

963
00:36:30,150 --> 00:36:28,000
the subject that has asked this very

964
00:36:32,950 --> 00:36:30,160
question um the first one that may be

965
00:36:35,270 --> 00:36:32,960
the first one of its kind in 1993 slovak

966
00:36:37,670 --> 00:36:35,280
and peterson made a survey of 200 grad

967
00:36:38,390 --> 00:36:37,680
students and they asked them to rank

968
00:36:39,510 --> 00:36:38,400
their

969
00:36:41,750 --> 00:36:39,520
risks

970
00:36:45,270 --> 00:36:41,760
in terms of concern and

971
00:36:47,510 --> 00:36:45,280
impact risks ranked 24 and we're just it

972
00:36:50,150 --> 00:36:47,520
excuse me 14 out of 24 and we're

973
00:36:54,069 --> 00:36:50,160
described as distant in time and

974
00:36:57,349 --> 00:36:54,079
non-immediate and that result continued

975
00:37:00,630 --> 00:36:57,359
even in a survey that was performed at a

976
00:37:02,870 --> 00:37:00,640
pew research center in 1999 and again in

977
00:37:05,030 --> 00:37:02,880
2012 with almost identical results the

978
00:37:06,870 --> 00:37:05,040
majority of the people surveyed

979
00:37:08,390 --> 00:37:06,880
described it as something that will

980
00:37:10,870 --> 00:37:08,400
probably not happen

981
00:37:14,150 --> 00:37:10,880
or will definitely not happen

982
00:37:15,910 --> 00:37:14,160
and so you know we have to ask ourselves

983
00:37:17,349 --> 00:37:15,920
where why is that contradiction there

984
00:37:19,349 --> 00:37:17,359
you know if if

985
00:37:22,950 --> 00:37:19,359
why does that narrative keep occurring

986
00:37:25,349 --> 00:37:22,960
if we if it finds an indifferent public

987
00:37:27,349 --> 00:37:25,359
and so for that i think

988
00:37:29,030 --> 00:37:27,359
that we have to see

989
00:37:31,750 --> 00:37:29,040
we have to look at what kind of threat

990
00:37:34,470 --> 00:37:31,760
we're talking about and first we have to

991
00:37:36,230 --> 00:37:34,480
consider the uniqueness of the threat

992
00:37:38,790 --> 00:37:36,240
if we look again at paul slovak's

993
00:37:41,190 --> 00:37:38,800
research on risk assessment and they've

994
00:37:45,190 --> 00:37:41,200
developed a matrix where

995
00:37:47,349 --> 00:37:45,200
there's a couple of variables including

996
00:37:48,630 --> 00:37:47,359
dread risk and unknown risk that help

997
00:37:49,589 --> 00:37:48,640
rank

998
00:37:53,109 --> 00:37:49,599
risk

999
00:37:54,710 --> 00:37:53,119
towards specific issues

1000
00:37:57,750 --> 00:37:54,720
and we see that

1001
00:37:59,750 --> 00:37:57,760
asteroid impacts would be described very

1002
00:38:01,910 --> 00:37:59,760
highly by all of these characteristics

1003
00:38:04,390 --> 00:38:01,920
you know uncontrollable indiscriminate

1004
00:38:05,670 --> 00:38:04,400
catastrophic consequences unknown to

1005
00:38:06,710 --> 00:38:05,680
science

1006
00:38:08,950 --> 00:38:06,720
and

1007
00:38:11,109 --> 00:38:08,960
that is how it is continually presented

1008
00:38:13,430 --> 00:38:11,119
the dominant narrative it is captured as

1009
00:38:15,829 --> 00:38:13,440
very risky and catastrophic and as

1010
00:38:17,190 --> 00:38:15,839
slovic accurately describes it has a

1011
00:38:20,310 --> 00:38:17,200
unique combination of very low

1012
00:38:21,750 --> 00:38:20,320
probability and very great consequence

1013
00:38:23,190 --> 00:38:21,760
in addition

1014
00:38:25,270 --> 00:38:23,200
the threat is also the more compelling

1015
00:38:27,510 --> 00:38:25,280
because it is always presented as urgent

1016
00:38:30,230 --> 00:38:27,520
even though we've been surveying

1017
00:38:32,550 --> 00:38:30,240
asteroids for many decades it always is

1018
00:38:34,069 --> 00:38:32,560
just hiding behind the moon or

1019
00:38:35,829 --> 00:38:34,079
you know it's it's

1020
00:38:37,109 --> 00:38:35,839
you know we can't see it we only find

1021
00:38:40,230 --> 00:38:37,119
out about it

1022
00:38:42,870 --> 00:38:40,240
months or weeks or hours before it's um

1023
00:38:45,109 --> 00:38:42,880
supposed to impact the planet

1024
00:38:47,670 --> 00:38:45,119
another element that's interesting is

1025
00:38:49,750 --> 00:38:47,680
the tools that we use to tell that story

1026
00:38:51,589 --> 00:38:49,760
the tools of the trade and so

1027
00:38:54,230 --> 00:38:51,599
i think that

1028
00:38:55,990 --> 00:38:54,240
this this threat is particularly

1029
00:38:57,750 --> 00:38:56,000
visually appealing

1030
00:39:02,870 --> 00:38:57,760
and

1031
00:39:04,790 --> 00:39:02,880
in special effects than the cgi

1032
00:39:06,790 --> 00:39:04,800
what was in the 90s something that was

1033
00:39:09,510 --> 00:39:06,800
very surprising that we could we were

1034
00:39:11,270 --> 00:39:09,520
very impressed as an audience that movie

1035
00:39:14,550 --> 00:39:11,280
movie makers could do became an

1036
00:39:17,349 --> 00:39:14,560
expectation in the in the in the 2000s

1037
00:39:20,630 --> 00:39:17,359
and afterwards and so at now at this

1038
00:39:21,670 --> 00:39:20,640
point with relatively little cost you

1039
00:39:23,670 --> 00:39:21,680
can make

1040
00:39:26,550 --> 00:39:23,680
pretty impressive imaginary of the

1041
00:39:29,430 --> 00:39:26,560
asteroid um you know the track and and

1042
00:39:31,270 --> 00:39:29,440
the moment of impact and interestingly

1043
00:39:33,910 --> 00:39:31,280
um you can keep going with that because

1044
00:39:35,910 --> 00:39:33,920
what happens after if the impact happens

1045
00:39:38,790 --> 00:39:35,920
i think the asteroid thread presents a

1046
00:39:40,550 --> 00:39:38,800
lot of opportunities for um developers

1047
00:39:42,550 --> 00:39:40,560
particularly in film

1048
00:39:45,270 --> 00:39:42,560
to showcase advanced special effects

1049
00:39:47,670 --> 00:39:45,280
that are not presented by other natural

1050
00:39:49,510 --> 00:39:47,680
disasters such as earthquakes or um

1051
00:39:51,910 --> 00:39:49,520
hurricanes

1052
00:39:54,069 --> 00:39:51,920
um and and and that's this worth a

1053
00:39:56,470 --> 00:39:54,079
mention you know even in

1054
00:39:58,950 --> 00:39:56,480
non-fiction works like um

1055
00:40:00,150 --> 00:39:58,960
documentaries like this one titled mega

1056
00:40:01,750 --> 00:40:00,160
disasters

1057
00:40:03,270 --> 00:40:01,760
um asteroids are not the only thing

1058
00:40:04,790 --> 00:40:03,280
that's discussed in that in that

1059
00:40:07,270 --> 00:40:04,800
documentary but they still made the

1060
00:40:09,349 --> 00:40:07,280
cover and so even in books you have that

1061
00:40:10,790 --> 00:40:09,359
maybe the asteroid impact happens in

1062
00:40:12,150 --> 00:40:10,800
five pages but

1063
00:40:14,630 --> 00:40:12,160
you know it's compelling enough that you

1064
00:40:16,230 --> 00:40:14,640
will put it on the on the cover

1065
00:40:17,750 --> 00:40:16,240
and then the third element is i think

1066
00:40:19,589 --> 00:40:17,760
the reason why we're here today is to

1067
00:40:22,470 --> 00:40:19,599
draw space the fact that the threat

1068
00:40:24,790 --> 00:40:22,480
comes from space is very powerful

1069
00:40:26,309 --> 00:40:24,800
as mccarty notes in his

1070
00:40:29,030 --> 00:40:26,319
books based on the america and the

1071
00:40:31,190 --> 00:40:29,040
american imagination he talks about how

1072
00:40:33,910 --> 00:40:31,200
space um became entrenched to the

1073
00:40:36,230 --> 00:40:33,920
american imagination particularly after

1074
00:40:38,069 --> 00:40:36,240
the second world war and so the idea

1075
00:40:40,069 --> 00:40:38,079
that both threats and salvation would

1076
00:40:42,069 --> 00:40:40,079
come from space was very compelling and

1077
00:40:43,670 --> 00:40:42,079
i think that that has continued since

1078
00:40:45,670 --> 00:40:43,680
then i think

1079
00:40:47,589 --> 00:40:45,680
you know all these elements together

1080
00:40:50,829 --> 00:40:47,599
make for a very

1081
00:40:54,550 --> 00:40:50,839
compelling if unbelievable

1082
00:40:56,470 --> 00:40:54,560
threat um and so again with

1083
00:40:57,990 --> 00:40:56,480
we see you know taking this line and the

1084
00:40:59,910 --> 00:40:58,000
previous site together we see its

1085
00:41:01,270 --> 00:40:59,920
narrative that has continued but all

1086
00:41:02,870 --> 00:41:01,280
these elements together in particular

1087
00:41:04,230 --> 00:41:02,880
the tools of the trade

1088
00:41:06,069 --> 00:41:04,240
and the opportunity to make this

1089
00:41:07,670 --> 00:41:06,079
narrative even more entertaining even

1090
00:41:10,150 --> 00:41:07,680
more

1091
00:41:12,470 --> 00:41:10,160
amazing visually just

1092
00:41:14,870 --> 00:41:12,480
has this feedback loop continuing and so

1093
00:41:16,950 --> 00:41:14,880
you know there's almost no end we will

1094
00:41:18,550 --> 00:41:16,960
probably continue seeing even more

1095
00:41:20,870 --> 00:41:18,560
examples about it

1096
00:41:23,430 --> 00:41:20,880
so we have that explained we we kind of

1097
00:41:25,430 --> 00:41:23,440
understand now why we keep seeing it but

1098
00:41:27,270 --> 00:41:25,440
we still understand why people are not

1099
00:41:28,470 --> 00:41:27,280
concerned about it when they think about

1100
00:41:30,390 --> 00:41:28,480
the issue

1101
00:41:32,550 --> 00:41:30,400
and so for that i think

1102
00:41:34,630 --> 00:41:32,560
we have to look at how the story is

1103
00:41:36,790 --> 00:41:34,640
represented as depicted

1104
00:41:40,230 --> 00:41:36,800
and

1105
00:41:42,710 --> 00:41:40,240
why is this giggle factor that the

1106
00:41:45,270 --> 00:41:42,720
scientists would usually bemoan still

1107
00:41:46,710 --> 00:41:45,280
alive well you know houston we have a

1108
00:41:48,230 --> 00:41:46,720
problem cliches like that are

1109
00:41:50,309 --> 00:41:48,240
particularly common in this kind of

1110
00:41:52,069 --> 00:41:50,319
movie with few exceptions asteroid

1111
00:41:54,150 --> 00:41:52,079
impact narratives make for decidedly

1112
00:41:56,230 --> 00:41:54,160
unsuccessful movies often only made

1113
00:41:58,390 --> 00:41:56,240
watchable by the special effects used to

1114
00:42:00,150 --> 00:41:58,400
image the asteroid and its path of

1115
00:42:01,670 --> 00:42:00,160
destruction there's

1116
00:42:03,829 --> 00:42:01,680
narrative gaps their incorrect

1117
00:42:06,470 --> 00:42:03,839
scientific and technological assumptions

1118
00:42:08,870 --> 00:42:06,480
predictable storylines you keep going

1119
00:42:10,309 --> 00:42:08,880
and so these are some of these

1120
00:42:12,550 --> 00:42:10,319
one of them is for example incorrect

1121
00:42:14,470 --> 00:42:12,560
science and technology and i'm sure when

1122
00:42:16,550 --> 00:42:14,480
you're in the audience as well you start

1123
00:42:18,470 --> 00:42:16,560
naming all these using the space shuttle

1124
00:42:20,390 --> 00:42:18,480
to go to the asteroid and you know

1125
00:42:21,190 --> 00:42:20,400
deploy the nuclear weapons

1126
00:42:23,190 --> 00:42:21,200
um

1127
00:42:24,950 --> 00:42:23,200
another one that's interesting is this

1128
00:42:25,990 --> 00:42:24,960
inflated nest role it's interesting to

1129
00:42:28,309 --> 00:42:26,000
me that

1130
00:42:29,910 --> 00:42:28,319
in the real world when we talk about the

1131
00:42:31,589 --> 00:42:29,920
possibility of an asteroid impact and

1132
00:42:33,829 --> 00:42:31,599
what do we do there's all these

1133
00:42:35,030 --> 00:42:33,839
discussions about you know it's a dod is

1134
00:42:36,710 --> 00:42:35,040
it um

1135
00:42:38,309 --> 00:42:36,720
department of energy is it nasa's that

1136
00:42:39,589 --> 00:42:38,319
all work together what happens with

1137
00:42:41,990 --> 00:42:39,599
other countries you know do we want to

1138
00:42:44,550 --> 00:42:42,000
cooperate with them if we want to solve

1139
00:42:46,390 --> 00:42:44,560
this issue none of that none of that is

1140
00:42:48,150 --> 00:42:46,400
in the main narrative you know nasa is

1141
00:42:50,470 --> 00:42:48,160
automatically the source of the

1142
00:42:54,150 --> 00:42:50,480
solutions and they have this amazing

1143
00:42:58,309 --> 00:42:56,230
so you know inspection but um

1144
00:42:59,589 --> 00:42:58,319
so a third element that again is also

1145
00:43:01,589 --> 00:42:59,599
very interesting is this focus on

1146
00:43:02,710 --> 00:43:01,599
sciences limitations you know again

1147
00:43:05,030 --> 00:43:02,720
despite the fact that we've been

1148
00:43:07,349 --> 00:43:05,040
surveying asteroids for decades um the

1149
00:43:09,349 --> 00:43:07,359
asteroid is always a surprise in deep

1150
00:43:11,030 --> 00:43:09,359
impact for example the asteroid is found

1151
00:43:13,109 --> 00:43:11,040
out by a 12 year

1152
00:43:15,829 --> 00:43:13,119
12 year old with a not impressive

1153
00:43:18,230 --> 00:43:15,839
telescope not by a ground observatory

1154
00:43:21,670 --> 00:43:18,240
not by an academic institution not by

1155
00:43:24,150 --> 00:43:21,680
nasa it's by a kid with a telescope

1156
00:43:25,910 --> 00:43:24,160
so um and then you see that also as well

1157
00:43:27,349 --> 00:43:25,920
with the kind of fumbling with how what

1158
00:43:28,790 --> 00:43:27,359
do you do about it do you even know

1159
00:43:30,790 --> 00:43:28,800
what's going on

1160
00:43:33,910 --> 00:43:30,800
um and then finally and i think this is

1161
00:43:36,550 --> 00:43:33,920
a very important point too is that

1162
00:43:39,109 --> 00:43:36,560
asteroids are not the focal point of the

1163
00:43:41,910 --> 00:43:39,119
of the story um they are the cover to

1164
00:43:43,670 --> 00:43:41,920
discuss a lot of other issues namely um

1165
00:43:45,589 --> 00:43:43,680
american values the true nature of

1166
00:43:47,030 --> 00:43:45,599
things you know when when crisis comes

1167
00:43:49,829 --> 00:43:47,040
you see the true nature of people that

1168
00:43:53,109 --> 00:43:49,839
kind of thing and so i think as a result

1169
00:43:55,829 --> 00:43:53,119
um there is no requirement from either

1170
00:43:57,190 --> 00:43:55,839
the movie makers or from us the audience

1171
00:43:58,710 --> 00:43:57,200
to have an accurate depiction of

1172
00:44:01,430 --> 00:43:58,720
asteroids because the movies are not

1173
00:44:03,190 --> 00:44:01,440
about that and so when you think of

1174
00:44:05,109 --> 00:44:03,200
again armageddon you think about that

1175
00:44:07,030 --> 00:44:05,119
scene that has been recreated in

1176
00:44:10,630 --> 00:44:07,040
countless movies you don't think about

1177
00:44:12,230 --> 00:44:10,640
the asteroid as the main main character

1178
00:44:14,870 --> 00:44:12,240
in that movie

1179
00:44:16,309 --> 00:44:14,880
and so what comes to mind for us in the

1180
00:44:18,309 --> 00:44:16,319
audience is not a film about a threat

1181
00:44:19,510 --> 00:44:18,319
that should concern us but one where

1182
00:44:21,190 --> 00:44:19,520
individual characters and their

1183
00:44:22,870 --> 00:44:21,200
successes and failures and a lively

1184
00:44:24,950 --> 00:44:22,880
scene or two of destruction

1185
00:44:27,270 --> 00:44:24,960
are the focal point again believable

1186
00:44:29,589 --> 00:44:27,280
enough to keep us entertained but not to

1187
00:44:32,069 --> 00:44:29,599
wake us up at night

1188
00:44:34,390 --> 00:44:32,079
now in contrast to that we have our

1189
00:44:35,349 --> 00:44:34,400
scientific understanding of of the

1190
00:44:37,190 --> 00:44:35,359
thread

1191
00:44:38,630 --> 00:44:37,200
and while the public is entertained but

1192
00:44:40,150 --> 00:44:38,640
i'm concerned the scientific community

1193
00:44:42,309 --> 00:44:40,160
has been preoccupied with it with the

1194
00:44:45,510 --> 00:44:42,319
issue for at least three decades and

1195
00:44:48,230 --> 00:44:45,520
i'll go very briefly through this but um

1196
00:44:50,150 --> 00:44:48,240
this idea that imparts constitute a

1197
00:44:51,910 --> 00:44:50,160
contemporary hazard did not emerge until

1198
00:44:53,990 --> 00:44:51,920
the end of the 20th century so we're not

1199
00:44:55,109 --> 00:44:54,000
looking at a very long history

1200
00:44:56,550 --> 00:44:55,119
but um

1201
00:44:58,630 --> 00:44:56,560
and it was as chapman and morrison

1202
00:45:00,630 --> 00:44:58,640
described even deemed a curiosity before

1203
00:45:03,589 --> 00:45:00,640
this but again these catalysts you know

1204
00:45:06,470 --> 00:45:03,599
the 1980 hypothesis 1994 shoemaker levy

1205
00:45:08,790 --> 00:45:06,480
planetary research it um motivated a

1206
00:45:11,829 --> 00:45:08,800
more urgent appeal to look at this issue

1207
00:45:14,470 --> 00:45:11,839
so in 1990 in 1981 nasa sponsored the

1208
00:45:16,710 --> 00:45:14,480
space watch workshop um in the 90s we

1209
00:45:20,390 --> 00:45:16,720
have the spaceguard survey which was the

1210
00:45:23,510 --> 00:45:20,400
first um comprehensive survey of um

1211
00:45:24,710 --> 00:45:23,520
asteroids over larger than one kilometer

1212
00:45:26,950 --> 00:45:24,720
in diameter

1213
00:45:28,470 --> 00:45:26,960
and and that kind of snowballed and you

1214
00:45:31,270 --> 00:45:28,480
know the the government the us

1215
00:45:33,430 --> 00:45:31,280
government in particular has taken

1216
00:45:35,430 --> 00:45:33,440
consistent steps to understand the issue

1217
00:45:37,670 --> 00:45:35,440
more and there's about four million

1218
00:45:39,430 --> 00:45:37,680
dollars in in funding that go to this

1219
00:45:41,430 --> 00:45:39,440
issue annually

1220
00:45:43,190 --> 00:45:41,440
now as a result of all this our

1221
00:45:45,510 --> 00:45:43,200
scientific understanding of the issue

1222
00:45:48,069 --> 00:45:45,520
has advanced greatly so much in fact

1223
00:45:49,589 --> 00:45:48,079
that as morrison says astronomers have

1224
00:45:51,430 --> 00:45:49,599
already assured us that we are not due

1225
00:45:53,750 --> 00:45:51,440
for an extinction level impact from an

1226
00:45:55,750 --> 00:45:53,760
asteroid within the next century

1227
00:45:57,750 --> 00:45:55,760
bearing an unlikely strike by a large

1228
00:46:01,829 --> 00:45:57,760
comet we are not about to go the way of

1229
00:46:02,950 --> 00:46:01,839
the dinosaurs so you can breathe easy

1230
00:46:05,270 --> 00:46:02,960
um

1231
00:46:06,710 --> 00:46:05,280
but that is in sharp contrast with the

1232
00:46:09,510 --> 00:46:06,720
dominant narrative you know were you to

1233
00:46:12,230 --> 00:46:09,520
watch the movies only by themselves you

1234
00:46:14,950 --> 00:46:12,240
would think that you know this is

1235
00:46:17,190 --> 00:46:14,960
likely going to happen and so um you

1236
00:46:19,750 --> 00:46:17,200
know as as morrison says asteroids do

1237
00:46:22,390 --> 00:46:19,760
not accept in hollywood change orbits

1238
00:46:23,829 --> 00:46:22,400
capriciously and that's because

1239
00:46:26,390 --> 00:46:23,839
this this narrative that we've just

1240
00:46:28,630 --> 00:46:26,400
talked a little bit about ignores this

1241
00:46:30,550 --> 00:46:28,640
at this element of predictability

1242
00:46:31,349 --> 00:46:30,560
you know in in science we understand

1243
00:46:33,430 --> 00:46:31,359
that

1244
00:46:35,030 --> 00:46:33,440
chances are we understand enough of the

1245
00:46:36,309 --> 00:46:35,040
orbits of the larger

1246
00:46:38,470 --> 00:46:36,319
asteroids that we don't need to be

1247
00:46:40,550 --> 00:46:38,480
concerned about those about those in

1248
00:46:44,230 --> 00:46:40,560
fact we are now concerned about the sub

1249
00:46:46,309 --> 00:46:44,240
kilometer items not the larger ones

1250
00:46:49,270 --> 00:46:46,319
but that that element of predictability

1251
00:46:50,390 --> 00:46:49,280
and that nuance of how different sizes

1252
00:46:53,430 --> 00:46:50,400
of items could have different

1253
00:46:55,910 --> 00:46:53,440
consequences completely lost in film and

1254
00:46:58,390 --> 00:46:55,920
particularly in film um but in general

1255
00:47:00,630 --> 00:46:58,400
in fiction

1256
00:47:02,470 --> 00:47:00,640
another element that's that's that's

1257
00:47:05,109 --> 00:47:02,480
lost is this this

1258
00:47:07,190 --> 00:47:05,119
tied to the idea that we put aside the

1259
00:47:10,870 --> 00:47:07,200
major threat and there's no sense of

1260
00:47:11,990 --> 00:47:10,880
panic if you read for example the nrc

1261
00:47:13,670 --> 00:47:12,000
report

1262
00:47:15,670 --> 00:47:13,680
it it says and i quote and it's right

1263
00:47:17,190 --> 00:47:15,680
there the time required to mitigate

1264
00:47:19,190 --> 00:47:17,200
optimally is in a range of years to

1265
00:47:21,270 --> 00:47:19,200
decades but this long period may require

1266
00:47:23,829 --> 00:47:21,280
acting before it is known with certainty

1267
00:47:25,829 --> 00:47:23,839
that an neo will impact earth and so the

1268
00:47:29,030 --> 00:47:25,839
arguments are for funding the sub

1269
00:47:30,950 --> 00:47:29,040
kilometer survey called for in 2005 and

1270
00:47:32,870 --> 00:47:30,960
for exploring new technologies to

1271
00:47:34,549 --> 00:47:32,880
identify smaller objects and they are

1272
00:47:36,390 --> 00:47:34,559
rooted in the desire to continue to

1273
00:47:38,069 --> 00:47:36,400
dispel the threat and give us decades or

1274
00:47:39,349 --> 00:47:38,079
centuries to get ready for an

1275
00:47:41,670 --> 00:47:39,359
eventuality

1276
00:47:43,510 --> 00:47:41,680
but as you can see it's a very different

1277
00:47:45,750 --> 00:47:43,520
scenario from what is the main focal

1278
00:47:48,069 --> 00:47:45,760
point of the dominant narrative

1279
00:47:50,390 --> 00:47:48,079
so this mismatch exists between public

1280
00:47:52,790 --> 00:47:50,400
and scientific perception of the issue

1281
00:47:54,309 --> 00:47:52,800
and it helps explain why despite the

1282
00:47:56,069 --> 00:47:54,319
concerted efforts of prominent

1283
00:47:58,069 --> 00:47:56,079
scientists to foster public concern and

1284
00:48:00,069 --> 00:47:58,079
understanding of the issue the public is

1285
00:48:01,510 --> 00:48:00,079
not an active player in lobbying for

1286
00:48:03,910 --> 00:48:01,520
what could be construed as the biggest

1287
00:48:06,390 --> 00:48:03,920
threat the world could ever face

1288
00:48:08,150 --> 00:48:06,400
and there are many many reasons to help

1289
00:48:10,069 --> 00:48:08,160
explain this

1290
00:48:12,150 --> 00:48:10,079
which i won't go into today

1291
00:48:13,589 --> 00:48:12,160
but i think that the link to education

1292
00:48:14,790 --> 00:48:13,599
is interesting and this is what i want

1293
00:48:15,670 --> 00:48:14,800
to leave you with

1294
00:48:17,030 --> 00:48:15,680
um

1295
00:48:19,190 --> 00:48:17,040
because

1296
00:48:21,030 --> 00:48:19,200
many many of the authors say that well

1297
00:48:22,710 --> 00:48:21,040
if we want the public on our side we

1298
00:48:24,549 --> 00:48:22,720
have to design a very aggressive

1299
00:48:26,950 --> 00:48:24,559
educational campaign where they can

1300
00:48:28,549 --> 00:48:26,960
understand the issue and

1301
00:48:32,069 --> 00:48:28,559
chances are that they are just not as

1302
00:48:33,349 --> 00:48:32,079
aware of impacts and impact threats

1303
00:48:35,750 --> 00:48:33,359
as we are

1304
00:48:38,630 --> 00:48:35,760
but i would argue that that situation is

1305
00:48:41,270 --> 00:48:38,640
no longer true um

1306
00:48:43,190 --> 00:48:41,280
you know if you did not watch that great

1307
00:48:45,510 --> 00:48:43,200
science documentary on asteroids you

1308
00:48:47,990 --> 00:48:45,520
probably sat through armageddon and deep

1309
00:48:49,349 --> 00:48:48,000
impact and seeking a friend for the end

1310
00:48:50,150 --> 00:48:49,359
of the world or

1311
00:48:52,150 --> 00:48:50,160
so

1312
00:48:55,109 --> 00:48:52,160
you know culturally we are aware of the

1313
00:48:57,270 --> 00:48:55,119
threat so i think the idea that um the

1314
00:48:59,589 --> 00:48:57,280
public just doesn't know about it no

1315
00:49:02,710 --> 00:48:59,599
longer applies i think there are other

1316
00:49:04,870 --> 00:49:02,720
reasons that help explain why the public

1317
00:49:06,150 --> 00:49:04,880
is not as concerned

1318
00:49:07,750 --> 00:49:06,160
and so i think that's one of the

1319
00:49:09,510 --> 00:49:07,760
assumptions that needs to be questioned

1320
00:49:11,349 --> 00:49:09,520
the other one is

1321
00:49:14,390 --> 00:49:11,359
this idea that improved education would

1322
00:49:17,510 --> 00:49:14,400
lead to greater policy relevance

1323
00:49:18,790 --> 00:49:17,520
and that hollywood and these films and

1324
00:49:20,630 --> 00:49:18,800
these stories

1325
00:49:23,190 --> 00:49:20,640
have a role to play in advancing that

1326
00:49:25,589 --> 00:49:23,200
education um hartwell says scientists

1327
00:49:27,270 --> 00:49:25,599
are a great debt of gratitude to the

1328
00:49:29,270 --> 00:49:27,280
hollywood blockbuster and that's

1329
00:49:31,430 --> 00:49:29,280
something that i would question i think

1330
00:49:33,589 --> 00:49:31,440
that

1331
00:49:35,829 --> 00:49:33,599
what we may be what we may have seen is

1332
00:49:37,910 --> 00:49:35,839
that these depictions only demonstrate

1333
00:49:39,990 --> 00:49:37,920
the perpetuation of a specific view of

1334
00:49:42,069 --> 00:49:40,000
the asteroid threat that is removed from

1335
00:49:44,470 --> 00:49:42,079
a current scientific understanding of

1336
00:49:47,190 --> 00:49:44,480
the issue and therefore it's real risk

1337
00:49:49,190 --> 00:49:47,200
and so um i would leave you with just

1338
00:49:51,270 --> 00:49:49,200
thinking that more research and public

1339
00:49:53,510 --> 00:49:51,280
attitudes will probably be very helpful

1340
00:49:55,589 --> 00:49:53,520
and also considering the lessons from

1341
00:49:57,190 --> 00:49:55,599
field such as risk assessment

1342
00:49:58,390 --> 00:49:57,200
to understand

1343
00:49:59,750 --> 00:49:58,400
and to inform

1344
00:50:06,309 --> 00:49:59,760
educational

1345
00:50:07,670 --> 00:50:06,319
having a real public policy impact

1346
00:50:09,349 --> 00:50:07,680
so with that i thank you very much for

1347
00:50:17,510 --> 00:50:09,359
your attention and i look forward to

1348
00:50:21,910 --> 00:50:20,150
i realized that i forgot to read the bio

1349
00:50:23,030 --> 00:50:21,920
but i want to make sure that you know no

1350
00:50:24,630 --> 00:50:23,040
it's not long so i'm going to read it

1351
00:50:25,349 --> 00:50:24,640
right now so that you all know who laura

1352
00:50:29,750 --> 00:50:25,359
is

1353
00:50:31,990 --> 00:50:29,760
observations associate at the institute

1354
00:50:33,510 --> 00:50:32,000
for global environmental strategies and

1355
00:50:35,349 --> 00:50:33,520
she's also a correspondent for

1356
00:50:37,829 --> 00:50:35,359
spacepolicyonline.com

1357
00:50:39,670 --> 00:50:37,839
and a recent graduate like almost

1358
00:50:41,510 --> 00:50:39,680
everyone in the room it seems of george

1359
00:50:43,270 --> 00:50:41,520
washington university space policy

1360
00:50:44,309 --> 00:50:43,280
institute

1361
00:50:46,390 --> 00:50:44,319
questions

1362
00:50:47,990 --> 00:50:46,400
torrence just a comment is a very

1363
00:50:50,309 --> 00:50:48,000
interesting study i

1364
00:50:52,950 --> 00:50:50,319
appreciated it i used to talk about the

1365
00:50:54,710 --> 00:50:52,960
public perception problem with gene

1366
00:50:56,870 --> 00:50:54,720
shoemaker quite a bit

1367
00:50:58,950 --> 00:50:56,880
and

1368
00:51:00,950 --> 00:50:58,960
one take on this obviously is that

1369
00:51:03,670 --> 00:51:00,960
humans have a hard time relating to

1370
00:51:05,750 --> 00:51:03,680
threats that happen very infrequently on

1371
00:51:07,270 --> 00:51:05,760
the time scale of the human lifetime

1372
00:51:09,430 --> 00:51:07,280
that's something everybody deals with

1373
00:51:11,910 --> 00:51:09,440
this is and it's interesting just as a

1374
00:51:15,430 --> 00:51:11,920
comment to consider a a thought

1375
00:51:17,750 --> 00:51:15,440
experiment that in 1906 the san andreas

1376
00:51:20,470 --> 00:51:17,760
decided to break down in koalinga

1377
00:51:22,309 --> 00:51:20,480
instead of san francisco and the object

1378
00:51:23,670 --> 00:51:22,319
that hit tunguska was on a slightly

1379
00:51:25,750 --> 00:51:23,680
different trajectory and took out

1380
00:51:27,990 --> 00:51:25,760
downtown moscow we might have a

1381
00:51:30,710 --> 00:51:28,000
different public perception

1382
00:51:32,069 --> 00:51:30,720
yes i agree um and and that's something

1383
00:51:34,470 --> 00:51:32,079
that you find a lot in the research your

1384
00:51:35,910 --> 00:51:34,480
first comment about how you know and you

1385
00:51:37,750 --> 00:51:35,920
see it you know there's a big spike in

1386
00:51:39,910 --> 00:51:37,760
interest after a real event after an

1387
00:51:42,069 --> 00:51:39,920
impact after the discussion on the media

1388
00:51:44,230 --> 00:51:42,079
that an asteroid may hit the planet and

1389
00:51:46,870 --> 00:51:44,240
then it wanes and i wouldn't necessarily

1390
00:51:48,549 --> 00:51:46,880
think that that's um that's a bad thing

1391
00:51:50,150 --> 00:51:48,559
because that's that's in our nature i

1392
00:51:51,829 --> 00:51:50,160
mean the public response that way but

1393
00:51:53,270 --> 00:51:51,839
policy makers respond that way and i

1394
00:51:54,870 --> 00:51:53,280
think scientists respond that way too

1395
00:51:56,309 --> 00:51:54,880
because um you know we can't be

1396
00:51:58,390 --> 00:51:56,319
concerned about every single threat all

1397
00:52:03,270 --> 00:51:58,400
the time and so it's just it's just one

1398
00:52:07,910 --> 00:52:04,309
uh

1399
00:52:10,069 --> 00:52:07,920
marsha freeman with the eir magazine

1400
00:52:12,549 --> 00:52:10,079
it doesn't help me sleep too much better

1401
00:52:14,309 --> 00:52:12,559
at night to know that scientists think

1402
00:52:16,790 --> 00:52:14,319
that it'll be a hundred years before

1403
00:52:20,549 --> 00:52:16,800
there's a big impact

1404
00:52:21,750 --> 00:52:20,559
i think we need to know a lot more than

1405
00:52:23,510 --> 00:52:21,760
we know

1406
00:52:25,430 --> 00:52:23,520
and that there's a very interesting

1407
00:52:28,470 --> 00:52:25,440
proposal i was wondering if you knew

1408
00:52:30,790 --> 00:52:28,480
about it or had any thoughts about it

1409
00:52:34,470 --> 00:52:30,800
that the russians have made over the

1410
00:52:37,270 --> 00:52:34,480
last year it's part of the larger

1411
00:52:39,030 --> 00:52:37,280
proposal it was actually by

1412
00:52:41,750 --> 00:52:39,040
general permanoff who had been the head

1413
00:52:44,829 --> 00:52:41,760
of the russian space program

1414
00:52:47,990 --> 00:52:44,839
which is for a whole global

1415
00:52:49,829 --> 00:52:48,000
coordination between global threats to

1416
00:52:53,030 --> 00:52:49,839
earth it certainly includes something

1417
00:52:55,109 --> 00:52:53,040
coming in here from somewhere else but

1418
00:52:58,549 --> 00:52:55,119
even the kinds of things that have large

1419
00:53:00,870 --> 00:52:58,559
scale impacts in terms of tsunamis

1420
00:53:03,750 --> 00:53:00,880
extreme weather events which can affect

1421
00:53:05,190 --> 00:53:03,760
a lot of countries etc and then a sort

1422
00:53:07,670 --> 00:53:05,200
of more

1423
00:53:10,390 --> 00:53:07,680
confined proposal for what's been called

1424
00:53:12,390 --> 00:53:10,400
the strategic defense of earth

1425
00:53:14,630 --> 00:53:12,400
now there are a lot of individual

1426
00:53:17,510 --> 00:53:14,640
programs through the united nations you

1427
00:53:19,670 --> 00:53:17,520
mentioned the us programs but really to

1428
00:53:20,710 --> 00:53:19,680
bring this together and more of a global

1429
00:53:22,470 --> 00:53:20,720
effort and

1430
00:53:24,390 --> 00:53:22,480
to give it you know to take away a

1431
00:53:26,710 --> 00:53:24,400
little bit of the giggle factors you

1432
00:53:29,190 --> 00:53:26,720
mentioned you know and to say this is a

1433
00:53:32,150 --> 00:53:29,200
scientific project that concerns us all

1434
00:53:34,390 --> 00:53:32,160
globally and the world scientists are

1435
00:53:36,390 --> 00:53:34,400
working on it that's a great point i am

1436
00:53:38,309 --> 00:53:36,400
aware of it and i think that again that

1437
00:53:40,230 --> 00:53:38,319
shows a whole very interesting

1438
00:53:41,750 --> 00:53:40,240
discussion that is missing from the

1439
00:53:43,670 --> 00:53:41,760
dominant narrative i think you would

1440
00:53:46,309 --> 00:53:43,680
make a great film talking about how the

1441
00:53:47,670 --> 00:53:46,319
different countries um and the proposals

1442
00:53:49,829 --> 00:53:47,680
that they have and whether they'll be

1443
00:53:50,630 --> 00:53:49,839
successful or not um another point is

1444
00:53:57,990 --> 00:53:50,640
that

1445
00:54:00,790 --> 00:53:58,000
of suggest in my in my very fast

1446
00:54:03,990 --> 00:54:00,800
presentation is that you know we

1447
00:54:06,309 --> 00:54:04,000
understand that even sub kilometer um

1448
00:54:07,829 --> 00:54:06,319
impact would would have

1449
00:54:09,750 --> 00:54:07,839
damage particularly depending on where

1450
00:54:11,750 --> 00:54:09,760
they fall you know if they fell in

1451
00:54:14,710 --> 00:54:11,760
certain locations you know in big cities

1452
00:54:16,549 --> 00:54:14,720
they would have a legitimate um and very

1453
00:54:18,630 --> 00:54:16,559
an impact of a lot of concern and so

1454
00:54:21,349 --> 00:54:18,640
it's interesting that that is missing

1455
00:54:23,030 --> 00:54:21,359
from the popular discussion because i

1456
00:54:26,790 --> 00:54:23,040
think it is something that the public

1457
00:54:30,470 --> 00:54:27,910
hey laura

1458
00:54:32,549 --> 00:54:30,480
so uh one of the slides had a dollar

1459
00:54:33,910 --> 00:54:32,559
figure of about four million dollars for

1460
00:54:35,510 --> 00:54:33,920
tracking

1461
00:54:39,910 --> 00:54:35,520
earth

1462
00:54:41,190 --> 00:54:39,920
which i noticed probably about two

1463
00:54:43,030 --> 00:54:41,200
percent of the budget of the movie

1464
00:54:45,190 --> 00:54:43,040
armageddon uh

1465
00:54:46,950 --> 00:54:45,200
but i noticed

1466
00:54:49,589 --> 00:54:46,960
you also had another slide that showed

1467
00:54:51,430 --> 00:54:49,599
uh statistics talking about the public

1468
00:54:53,430 --> 00:54:51,440
perception and saying that that you know

1469
00:54:54,950 --> 00:54:53,440
large percentages view this as a very

1470
00:54:57,190 --> 00:54:54,960
low uh

1471
00:55:00,549 --> 00:54:57,200
concern do you think that

1472
00:55:02,549 --> 00:55:00,559
the public uh opinion drives the policy

1473
00:55:04,870 --> 00:55:02,559
on that that drives the the low amount

1474
00:55:06,390 --> 00:55:04,880
of funding do you think that perhaps the

1475
00:55:07,910 --> 00:55:06,400
the low amount of funding is the reason

1476
00:55:09,430 --> 00:55:07,920
that the public is

1477
00:55:11,910 --> 00:55:09,440
less concerned or do you think that the

1478
00:55:13,670 --> 00:55:11,920
two are detached

1479
00:55:15,589 --> 00:55:13,680
um

1480
00:55:17,030 --> 00:55:15,599
no i don't think i don't think the

1481
00:55:24,470 --> 00:55:17,040
public

1482
00:55:26,950 --> 00:55:24,480
policy makers are in the same side of

1483
00:55:29,190 --> 00:55:26,960
the table and so like you said before

1484
00:55:31,349 --> 00:55:29,200
their interest is spiked by by real

1485
00:55:33,670 --> 00:55:31,359
events and they do put more funding in

1486
00:55:36,710 --> 00:55:33,680
it but then when it's not well you know

1487
00:55:38,549 --> 00:55:36,720
other priorities take precedence and so

1488
00:55:40,630 --> 00:55:38,559
i don't i don't see i don't have any

1489
00:55:42,630 --> 00:55:40,640
solutions to how you solve that i think

1490
00:55:43,910 --> 00:55:42,640
what the nrc is doing and what some in

1491
00:55:45,589 --> 00:55:43,920
the community are doing i'm saying you

1492
00:55:47,190 --> 00:55:45,599
know sub kilometer impact we need to

1493
00:55:49,990 --> 00:55:47,200
survey those we need to fund what

1494
00:55:53,109 --> 00:55:50,000
congress asked for in 2005

1495
00:55:55,829 --> 00:55:53,119
to to survey those those objects is is

1496
00:55:57,990 --> 00:55:55,839
good but i think that

1497
00:55:59,829 --> 00:55:58,000
bearing that very present and clear

1498
00:56:01,109 --> 00:55:59,839
thread

1499
00:56:03,190 --> 00:56:01,119
there's not going to be that much

1500
00:56:04,870 --> 00:56:03,200
attention given to it

1501
00:56:06,549 --> 00:56:04,880
we'll have time for questions later so

1502
00:56:08,549 --> 00:56:06,559
flindley and you can save your questions

1503
00:56:10,470 --> 00:56:08,559
for the for the panel we will we'll

1504
00:56:11,430 --> 00:56:10,480
certainly have time for that but we do

1505
00:56:14,069 --> 00:56:11,440
want to make sure we get all our

1506
00:56:15,829 --> 00:56:14,079
presentations in i just have a question

1507
00:56:16,950 --> 00:56:15,839
i want to take it not for you but you

1508
00:56:18,390 --> 00:56:16,960
can answer it too

1509
00:56:20,230 --> 00:56:18,400
a survey

1510
00:56:22,789 --> 00:56:20,240
how many of you have ever seen a

1511
00:56:25,829 --> 00:56:22,799
shooting star

1512
00:56:28,230 --> 00:56:25,839
all right so you have seen

1513
00:56:30,630 --> 00:56:28,240
an asteroid impact the earth

1514
00:56:31,990 --> 00:56:30,640
you already have so the statistics about

1515
00:56:34,069 --> 00:56:32,000
62 percent of the people don't think

1516
00:56:36,150 --> 00:56:34,079
it's like going to happen but it happens

1517
00:56:37,510 --> 00:56:36,160
all the time every night it's just a

1518
00:56:41,750 --> 00:56:37,520
question of whether it's a really big

1519
00:56:44,870 --> 00:56:43,430
i know and that's the point she says

1520
00:56:46,549 --> 00:56:44,880
people think of them as shooting stars

1521
00:56:48,390 --> 00:56:46,559
they don't understand what an asteroid

1522
00:56:50,390 --> 00:56:48,400
impact really is because they have a

1523
00:56:53,030 --> 00:56:50,400
hollywood impression and they don't

1524
00:56:55,990 --> 00:56:53,040
realize that asteroid and common impacts

1525
00:56:58,069 --> 00:56:56,000
happen every single day

1526
00:57:00,150 --> 00:56:58,079
and it's just a question of degree all

1527
00:57:02,230 --> 00:57:00,160
right so that's something that we need

1528
00:57:04,630 --> 00:57:02,240
to communicate a little bit better i

1529
00:57:07,670 --> 00:57:04,640
think uh that we aren't just talking

1530
00:57:10,150 --> 00:57:07,680
about a one-off dinosaur killer the

1531
00:57:13,750 --> 00:57:10,160
tunguska event i like to show

1532
00:57:15,910 --> 00:57:13,760
super posed on washington dc

1533
00:57:18,950 --> 00:57:15,920
because it encompasses the tree fall

1534
00:57:21,510 --> 00:57:18,960
pattern tunguska encompasses all

1535
00:57:23,109 --> 00:57:21,520
of metro washington d.c

1536
00:57:26,950 --> 00:57:23,119
so it's just something to keep in mind

1537
00:57:29,589 --> 00:57:26,960
good to show your congress people

1538
00:57:32,630 --> 00:57:29,599
all right our last presentation before

1539
00:57:34,470 --> 00:57:32,640
the panel discussion is by jin hyung and

1540
00:57:36,549 --> 00:57:34,480
she is a doctoral candidate in the

1541
00:57:39,030 --> 00:57:36,559
department of history and

1542
00:57:42,069 --> 00:57:39,040
art history at george mason university

1543
00:57:43,910 --> 00:57:42,079
she's working on her phd which will also

1544
00:57:46,549 --> 00:57:43,920
be looking at questions of public

1545
00:57:48,870 --> 00:57:46,559
perception and the mass media during

1546
00:57:51,589 --> 00:57:48,880
several more of nasa's science missions

1547
00:57:53,430 --> 00:57:51,599
that are mentioned in this talk

1548
00:57:56,150 --> 00:57:53,440
which is entitled

1549
00:57:57,270 --> 00:57:56,160
voyager exploring through the public eye

1550
00:58:09,430 --> 00:57:57,280
but i know she's going to talk about

1551
00:58:13,430 --> 00:58:11,670
all right so how the public gets

1552
00:58:15,030 --> 00:58:13,440
information has certainly evolved over

1553
00:58:17,190 --> 00:58:15,040
the last 30 years

1554
00:58:18,870 --> 00:58:17,200
in the 1970s the public relied on

1555
00:58:20,789 --> 00:58:18,880
newspapers for information and

1556
00:58:23,670 --> 00:58:20,799
television featured only three major

1557
00:58:25,589 --> 00:58:23,680
networks focusing on newspapers the

1558
00:58:27,270 --> 00:58:25,599
voyager mission illustrates the process

1559
00:58:29,670 --> 00:58:27,280
of how the mass media disseminated

1560
00:58:31,750 --> 00:58:29,680
scientific discoveries to the public

1561
00:58:33,829 --> 00:58:31,760
the voyager mission sent twin spacecraft

1562
00:58:36,390 --> 00:58:33,839
to take advantage of an outer planetary

1563
00:58:38,870 --> 00:58:36,400
alignment of jupiter saturn uranus and

1564
00:58:41,750 --> 00:58:38,880
neptune that occurs approximately once

1565
00:58:45,190 --> 00:58:41,760
in every 175 years

1566
00:58:48,230 --> 00:58:45,200
voyager 1 launched on august 1977

1567
00:58:51,670 --> 00:58:48,240
arrived at jupiter in march 1979 and

1568
00:58:53,829 --> 00:58:51,680
then saturn in november 1980

1569
00:58:56,589 --> 00:58:53,839
i'll also examine the media coverage for

1570
00:58:59,910 --> 00:58:56,599
galileo's mission's return to jupiter in

1571
00:59:01,910 --> 00:58:59,920
1995 and cassini's return to saturn in

1572
00:59:03,190 --> 00:59:01,920
2004.

1573
00:59:04,710 --> 00:59:03,200
i'm hoping to show you a few of the

1574
00:59:06,549 --> 00:59:04,720
significant changes in science

1575
00:59:08,870 --> 00:59:06,559
communication through the evolution in

1576
00:59:10,470 --> 00:59:08,880
mass media as well as hinted what's

1577
00:59:12,549 --> 00:59:10,480
happening in the public attitudes

1578
00:59:14,789 --> 00:59:12,559
towards science

1579
00:59:16,710 --> 00:59:14,799
press releases and press briefings acted

1580
00:59:18,870 --> 00:59:16,720
as a conduit for journalists to gain

1581
00:59:20,789 --> 00:59:18,880
information about a mission the major

1582
00:59:22,950 --> 00:59:20,799
newspapers published stories written

1583
00:59:25,430 --> 00:59:22,960
usually by consistent journalists on the

1584
00:59:27,030 --> 00:59:25,440
staff that followed space news

1585
00:59:28,390 --> 00:59:27,040
the articles carried different tones

1586
00:59:29,750 --> 00:59:28,400
according to the writer's style and

1587
00:59:36,390 --> 00:59:29,760
readership and often the more

1588
00:59:41,109 --> 00:59:39,109
what do i mean by popularizing science

1589
00:59:43,270 --> 00:59:41,119
los angeles times science writer george

1590
00:59:45,349 --> 00:59:43,280
alexander provides an excellent example

1591
00:59:49,109 --> 00:59:45,359
in his article for voyager 1's arrival

1592
00:59:50,789 --> 00:59:49,119
at jupiter published on march 1 1979.

1593
00:59:52,950 --> 00:59:50,799
he starts the article

1594
00:59:54,870 --> 00:59:52,960
like a sailboat cresting a reef and

1595
00:59:57,510 --> 00:59:54,880
entering the lagoon of some pacific

1596
00:59:59,109 --> 00:59:57,520
island the voyager 1 spacecraft passed

1597
01:00:01,510 --> 00:59:59,119
through the bow shock of jupiter

1598
01:00:04,630 --> 01:00:01,520
wednesday and slipped inside the big

1599
01:00:06,630 --> 01:00:04,640
planet's magnetic environment

1600
01:00:08,710 --> 01:00:06,640
the simile makes a real-world connection

1601
01:00:10,789 --> 01:00:08,720
to something most may have difficulty

1602
01:00:12,230 --> 01:00:10,799
imagining and goes on to further explain

1603
01:00:14,309 --> 01:00:12,240
the bow shock

1604
01:00:16,150 --> 01:00:14,319
it also hints that the risks inherent to

1605
01:00:18,710 --> 01:00:16,160
the spacecraft before it successfully

1606
01:00:20,789 --> 01:00:18,720
reaches its destination

1607
01:00:22,710 --> 01:00:20,799
popularization isn't perfect i'm sure

1608
01:00:24,710 --> 01:00:22,720
that sailors or engineers might point

1609
01:00:26,150 --> 01:00:24,720
out that the problems in making this

1610
01:00:28,549 --> 01:00:26,160
analogy

1611
01:00:31,109 --> 01:00:28,559
however these stories usually contain

1612
01:00:33,270 --> 01:00:31,119
understandable writing analogies as well

1613
01:00:35,430 --> 01:00:33,280
as enthusiasm which relates to a wider

1614
01:00:36,870 --> 01:00:35,440
public audience than the audience that's

1615
01:00:38,789 --> 01:00:36,880
already interested in learning about

1616
01:00:40,390 --> 01:00:38,799
things like this

1617
01:00:42,069 --> 01:00:40,400
during the planetary encounters the

1618
01:00:43,670 --> 01:00:42,079
media coverage shifted from the planned

1619
01:00:45,990 --> 01:00:43,680
science objectives to the actual

1620
01:00:47,510 --> 01:00:46,000
scientific discoveries and images

1621
01:00:49,670 --> 01:00:47,520
the press releases and briefings

1622
01:00:50,630 --> 01:00:49,680
increased in technical and scientific

1623
01:00:52,549 --> 01:00:50,640
detail

1624
01:00:54,390 --> 01:00:52,559
science journalists however compensated

1625
01:00:57,109 --> 01:00:54,400
for the detail by imbuing emotional

1626
01:00:58,870 --> 01:00:57,119
values surprise and wonder to the news

1627
01:01:01,670 --> 01:00:58,880
and personifying the science whenever

1628
01:01:03,589 --> 01:01:01,680
possible through quotes and interviews

1629
01:01:05,109 --> 01:01:03,599
newspapers also chose to emphasize

1630
01:01:07,270 --> 01:01:05,119
articles through their placement within

1631
01:01:09,030 --> 01:01:07,280
the publication such as the front page

1632
01:01:10,789 --> 01:01:09,040
or special sections

1633
01:01:12,870 --> 01:01:10,799
although the mass media cannot obtain

1634
01:01:15,430 --> 01:01:12,880
their own images using photographers

1635
01:01:17,510 --> 01:01:15,440
like most other earthly news events

1636
01:01:19,750 --> 01:01:17,520
editors determine space and placement

1637
01:01:25,990 --> 01:01:19,760
for the dramatic images like this one of

1638
01:01:30,470 --> 01:01:28,470
here are a couple examples of headline

1639
01:01:31,990 --> 01:01:30,480
news the

1640
01:01:34,470 --> 01:01:32,000
first one to the left and the middle one

1641
01:01:37,190 --> 01:01:34,480
are from the new york times both by john

1642
01:01:38,829 --> 01:01:37,200
noble wilford the first published on

1643
01:01:40,549 --> 01:01:38,839
sunday march 4th

1644
01:01:42,069 --> 01:01:40,559
1979

1645
01:01:45,510 --> 01:01:42,079
and

1646
01:01:46,789 --> 01:01:45,520
the middle one on march 6 1979 which is

1647
01:01:47,990 --> 01:01:46,799
a tuesday

1648
01:01:51,670 --> 01:01:48,000
the one on the right is from the

1649
01:01:53,589 --> 01:01:51,680
washington post also on march 6.

1650
01:01:55,510 --> 01:01:53,599
voyager images appear on the front page

1651
01:01:57,430 --> 01:01:55,520
of these newspapers drawing readers to

1652
01:01:58,630 --> 01:01:57,440
continue the story inside

1653
01:02:00,309 --> 01:01:58,640
if you note

1654
01:02:02,710 --> 01:02:00,319
the first image in the second image you

1655
01:02:04,470 --> 01:02:02,720
really only get the image and you don't

1656
01:02:06,549 --> 01:02:04,480
get much of the story you have caption

1657
01:02:08,150 --> 01:02:06,559
and it tells you to keep reading inside

1658
01:02:09,829 --> 01:02:08,160
it's only the one on the right where you

1659
01:02:12,710 --> 01:02:09,839
start getting the first few paragraphs

1660
01:02:14,470 --> 01:02:12,720
of the story and continued inside

1661
01:02:16,789 --> 01:02:14,480
the other headlines on the page will

1662
01:02:19,190 --> 01:02:16,799
include president carter's mediation of

1663
01:02:22,950 --> 01:02:19,200
a peace treaty between egypt and israel

1664
01:02:24,630 --> 01:02:22,960
and china's withdrawal from vietnam

1665
01:02:27,349 --> 01:02:24,640
john noble wilford had a remarkable

1666
01:02:29,190 --> 01:02:27,359
career at the new york times since 1965

1667
01:02:31,109 --> 01:02:29,200
and although retired as a senior science

1668
01:02:32,470 --> 01:02:31,119
correspondent still writes about science

1669
01:02:34,230 --> 01:02:32,480
news today

1670
01:02:35,910 --> 01:02:34,240
wolford has a more informational style

1671
01:02:38,069 --> 01:02:35,920
in this reporting he uses simple

1672
01:02:40,950 --> 01:02:38,079
description combined with facts

1673
01:02:42,630 --> 01:02:40,960
like the robot spacecraft sped within a

1674
01:02:44,150 --> 01:02:42,640
hundred and seventy four thousand

1675
01:02:46,470 --> 01:02:44,160
hundred thousand miles of the

1676
01:02:48,230 --> 01:02:46,480
multi-colored clouds of jupiter and with

1677
01:02:49,910 --> 01:02:48,240
its television cameras look deep into

1678
01:02:53,270 --> 01:02:49,920
the eye of the huge hurricane-like

1679
01:02:55,109 --> 01:02:53,280
feature known as the great red spot

1680
01:02:57,750 --> 01:02:55,119
wolford uses quotes as a vehicle for

1681
01:03:00,549 --> 01:02:57,760
emotion such as citing we've had a total

1682
01:03:02,789 --> 01:03:00,559
success exclaimed dr edward c stone the

1683
01:03:04,069 --> 01:03:02,799
project's chief scientist at the press

1684
01:03:06,309 --> 01:03:04,079
conference

1685
01:03:08,950 --> 01:03:06,319
he also quotes dr bradford smith from

1686
01:03:10,549 --> 01:03:08,960
the university of arizona saying

1687
01:03:12,870 --> 01:03:10,559
when he displayed the latest color

1688
01:03:14,950 --> 01:03:12,880
photograph of the disc of io with its

1689
01:03:17,109 --> 01:03:14,960
deep reds and yellow and a mingling of

1690
01:03:20,870 --> 01:03:17,119
dark spots he joked that's better

1691
01:03:25,029 --> 01:03:22,710
thomas o'toole repeats the same quotes

1692
01:03:27,029 --> 01:03:25,039
by dr stone dr smith which reminds me

1693
01:03:29,829 --> 01:03:27,039
that sound bites aren't exclusively

1694
01:03:31,750 --> 01:03:29,839
found in television

1695
01:03:34,470 --> 01:03:31,760
emphasizes the mysteries beguiling

1696
01:03:36,950 --> 01:03:34,480
scientists especially jupiter's moon io

1697
01:03:40,230 --> 01:03:36,960
which he quotes dr lawrence a sauder

1698
01:03:42,630 --> 01:03:40,240
blum of the u.s geological survey

1699
01:03:44,950 --> 01:03:42,640
saying as one of the strangest bodies in

1700
01:03:47,510 --> 01:03:44,960
the solar system

1701
01:03:49,029 --> 01:03:47,520
these articles emphasize the newness of

1702
01:03:51,589 --> 01:03:49,039
the color images despite being

1703
01:03:53,589 --> 01:03:51,599
republished in black and white medium

1704
01:03:55,510 --> 01:03:53,599
the questions raised by prior research

1705
01:03:58,390 --> 01:03:55,520
on ground-based telescopes that might

1706
01:04:00,150 --> 01:03:58,400
get answers and the new questions still

1707
01:04:02,150 --> 01:04:00,160
yet to be addressed

1708
01:04:04,150 --> 01:04:02,160
the newspaper editorials generally seem

1709
01:04:06,950 --> 01:04:04,160
to agree that this exploration holds

1710
01:04:09,270 --> 01:04:06,960
some fundamental value for humanity

1711
01:04:10,789 --> 01:04:09,280
as the los angeles times editorial so

1712
01:04:13,190 --> 01:04:10,799
eloquently states

1713
01:04:15,589 --> 01:04:13,200
like monkeys in a dark box

1714
01:04:17,190 --> 01:04:15,599
we use voyager as a window into the

1715
01:04:19,750 --> 01:04:17,200
blackness of space

1716
01:04:22,069 --> 01:04:19,760
we want to see what's out there from the

1717
01:04:24,470 --> 01:04:22,079
standpoint the exploration of space is

1718
01:04:26,470 --> 01:04:24,480
no high-priced public public relations

1719
01:04:27,510 --> 01:04:26,480
gimmick or cockeyed race with the

1720
01:04:29,670 --> 01:04:27,520
russians

1721
01:04:32,069 --> 01:04:29,680
rather it is a fundamental expression of

1722
01:04:35,990 --> 01:04:32,079
human nature a few billion dollars a

1723
01:04:40,390 --> 01:04:37,829
from hollywood star wars and close

1724
01:04:43,349 --> 01:04:40,400
encounters are the third kind of arrived

1725
01:04:44,950 --> 01:04:43,359
in movie theaters in 1977.

1726
01:04:47,029 --> 01:04:44,960
carl sagan had reached enormous

1727
01:04:49,349 --> 01:04:47,039
popularity and his television show

1728
01:04:52,309 --> 01:04:49,359
cosmos a personal voyage would air from

1729
01:04:53,829 --> 01:04:52,319
september to december 1980

1730
01:04:55,190 --> 01:04:53,839
a jpl

1731
01:04:57,430 --> 01:04:55,200
memo cited

1732
01:04:59,190 --> 01:04:57,440
voyager 1's encounter with saturn one

1733
01:05:01,190 --> 01:04:59,200
month ago produced media response

1734
01:05:02,950 --> 01:05:01,200
without parallel in the unmanned space

1735
01:05:05,190 --> 01:05:02,960
exploration program

1736
01:05:07,910 --> 01:05:05,200
the total potential tv viewing audience

1737
01:05:10,630 --> 01:05:07,920
was estimated at 100 million persons on

1738
01:05:12,390 --> 01:05:10,640
four continents

1739
01:05:14,710 --> 01:05:12,400
voyager represents traditional media

1740
01:05:17,029 --> 01:05:14,720
reporting where the journalists flocked

1741
01:05:18,549 --> 01:05:17,039
to get news about the mission

1742
01:05:20,470 --> 01:05:18,559
when public affairs worked with the

1743
01:05:22,710 --> 01:05:20,480
journalists to provide backgrounders and

1744
01:05:24,549 --> 01:05:22,720
hold press briefings and the journalists

1745
01:05:30,630 --> 01:05:24,559
became the primary communicator for

1746
01:05:34,309 --> 01:05:32,710
shifting forward galileo's news coverage

1747
01:05:37,109 --> 01:05:34,319
followed very similar patterns in the

1748
01:05:39,349 --> 01:05:37,119
print media although pioneer and voyager

1749
01:05:41,190 --> 01:05:39,359
completed flybys galileo became the

1750
01:05:43,349 --> 01:05:41,200
first spacecraft to remain in orbit

1751
01:05:46,390 --> 01:05:43,359
around jupiter and send a descent probe

1752
01:05:48,549 --> 01:05:46,400
into the atmosphere in 1995.

1753
01:05:50,870 --> 01:05:48,559
before reaching its destination galileo

1754
01:05:54,950 --> 01:05:50,880
flew by venus and earth from 1990 to

1755
01:05:57,190 --> 01:05:54,960
1992 traveled to an asteroid in 1991 and

1756
01:06:00,069 --> 01:05:57,200
discovered a moon on another asteroid in

1757
01:06:03,430 --> 01:06:00,079
1993 and also covered the comet

1758
01:06:05,589 --> 01:06:03,440
shoemaker levy 9 in 1994

1759
01:06:07,190 --> 01:06:05,599
galileo received extra pre-launch cut

1760
01:06:09,270 --> 01:06:07,200
news coverage because of its many

1761
01:06:12,630 --> 01:06:09,280
unfortunate delays and cost overruns

1762
01:06:14,870 --> 01:06:12,640
before its launch in 1989.

1763
01:06:17,029 --> 01:06:14,880
galileo's high gain antenna also failed

1764
01:06:18,950 --> 01:06:17,039
to fully open on its long voyage and the

1765
01:06:22,630 --> 01:06:18,960
multiple attempts to remedy the issue

1766
01:06:26,870 --> 01:06:24,789
this is an example going forward a

1767
01:06:31,670 --> 01:06:26,880
little bit more than the slide that will

1768
01:06:37,990 --> 01:06:35,029
published on july 22 1996 and it's

1769
01:06:40,150 --> 01:06:38,000
galileo spin on joven moons and it was a

1770
01:06:43,750 --> 01:06:40,160
half page feature and you'll not note at

1771
01:06:45,190 --> 01:06:43,760
the top it's nicely labeled science

1772
01:06:47,750 --> 01:06:45,200
with a little print underneath it that

1773
01:06:50,870 --> 01:06:47,760
says astronomy

1774
01:06:53,349 --> 01:06:50,880
and looking at what's on the front page

1775
01:06:55,670 --> 01:06:53,359
the front page actually has information

1776
01:06:57,670 --> 01:06:55,680
about the olympics that year and the

1777
01:07:01,510 --> 01:06:57,680
failure to find transworld airlines

1778
01:07:03,430 --> 01:07:01,520
flight 800's flight recorders so this is

1779
01:07:10,789 --> 01:07:03,440
a couple pages within the front page of

1780
01:07:16,870 --> 01:07:14,390
this is a word cloud for some

1781
01:07:18,470 --> 01:07:16,880
subset of galileo text taken from the

1782
01:07:23,430 --> 01:07:18,480
new york times and washington post from

1783
01:07:25,109 --> 01:07:23,440
december 3rd 1995 to january 24th 1996.

1784
01:07:26,789 --> 01:07:25,119
an attempt to gather information in new

1785
01:07:29,270 --> 01:07:26,799
ways i tried using this word cloud to

1786
01:07:30,950 --> 01:07:29,280
visually interpret textual data and it

1787
01:07:32,789 --> 01:07:30,960
makes frequent works bigger which can

1788
01:07:34,630 --> 01:07:32,799
vary depending on the algorithm used to

1789
01:07:36,390 --> 01:07:34,640
determine their importance

1790
01:07:38,789 --> 01:07:36,400
the next slide actually shows a more

1791
01:07:43,510 --> 01:07:38,799
organized variation where we can see

1792
01:07:46,150 --> 01:07:44,630
here i'm going to

1793
01:07:48,150 --> 01:07:46,160
pick out another pair of front page

1794
01:07:50,150 --> 01:07:48,160
articles to examine a bit from december

1795
01:07:51,589 --> 01:07:50,160
8 1995.

1796
01:07:53,589 --> 01:07:51,599
from the new york times wilfred

1797
01:07:56,710 --> 01:07:53,599
published probe pierce's jupiter's

1798
01:07:58,789 --> 01:07:56,720
clouds and first interior look at planet

1799
01:08:01,670 --> 01:07:58,799
he quotes dr william o'neill the project

1800
01:08:03,430 --> 01:08:01,680
manager as being ecstatic and dr

1801
01:08:05,109 --> 01:08:03,440
torrence johnson the chief project

1802
01:08:07,910 --> 01:08:05,119
scientist saying

1803
01:08:09,910 --> 01:08:07,920
this is really neat

1804
01:08:11,910 --> 01:08:09,920
wilfred reminds his readers about the

1805
01:08:13,829 --> 01:08:11,920
antenna failure that will result in

1806
01:08:16,309 --> 01:08:13,839
fewer pictures and none before next

1807
01:08:19,030 --> 01:08:16,319
summer although software advances will

1808
01:08:21,590 --> 01:08:19,040
allow the mission to complete 70

1809
01:08:23,590 --> 01:08:21,600
of its science objectives

1810
01:08:26,870 --> 01:08:23,600
the washington post staff writer kathy

1811
01:08:29,189 --> 01:08:26,880
sawyer published galileo starts tour of

1812
01:08:31,189 --> 01:08:29,199
giant planet after six year trek

1813
01:08:32,950 --> 01:08:31,199
spacecraft first to transmit from drove

1814
01:08:34,950 --> 01:08:32,960
in skies

1815
01:08:37,910 --> 01:08:34,960
she poetically uses descriptions like

1816
01:08:39,910 --> 01:08:37,920
the first tiny emissary to send messages

1817
01:08:42,709 --> 01:08:39,920
from inside the atmosphere of an outer

1818
01:08:45,510 --> 01:08:42,719
planet and also kamikaze probe

1819
01:08:46,870 --> 01:08:45,520
dispatched from the mother ship

1820
01:08:49,030 --> 01:08:46,880
she relayed the importance of the

1821
01:08:51,669 --> 01:08:49,040
research as understanding the planet's

1822
01:08:53,910 --> 01:08:51,679
evolution by looking at a planet that

1823
01:08:56,070 --> 01:08:53,920
retain more primeval characteristics

1824
01:08:58,390 --> 01:08:56,080
like a rosetta stone

1825
01:09:01,349 --> 01:08:58,400
the article focused on the probe's path

1826
01:09:04,070 --> 01:09:01,359
to descent like a celestial ballet

1827
01:09:06,070 --> 01:09:04,080
as described by william o'neill

1828
01:09:08,229 --> 01:09:06,080
sawyer also mentions a quote from carl

1829
01:09:09,349 --> 01:09:08,239
sagan from a televised chat where he

1830
01:09:11,189 --> 01:09:09,359
says

1831
01:09:14,390 --> 01:09:11,199
it's a very exciting moment to be alive

1832
01:09:15,669 --> 01:09:14,400
and interested in these issues

1833
01:09:18,149 --> 01:09:15,679
going back to the data from the word

1834
01:09:20,870 --> 01:09:18,159
cloud we see some unremarkable words

1835
01:09:22,789 --> 01:09:20,880
like scientists or atmosphere

1836
01:09:25,110 --> 01:09:22,799
minutes gets repeated from both the

1837
01:09:26,229 --> 01:09:25,120
orbital insertion and communications

1838
01:09:29,030 --> 01:09:26,239
time

1839
01:09:32,229 --> 01:09:29,040
billion refers to the 1.3 billion dollar

1840
01:09:35,349 --> 01:09:32,239
price tag and 2.3 billion miles traveled

1841
01:09:36,950 --> 01:09:35,359
since launch while this method gives me

1842
01:09:38,789 --> 01:09:36,960
the common words it turns out the

1843
01:09:40,789 --> 01:09:38,799
uncommon descriptions seem much more

1844
01:09:43,269 --> 01:09:40,799
interesting to see what these writers

1845
01:09:45,510 --> 01:09:43,279
use to explain complex phenomena in so

1846
01:09:47,590 --> 01:09:45,520
many different ways

1847
01:09:49,829 --> 01:09:47,600
the galileo mission at this particular

1848
01:09:52,229 --> 01:09:49,839
time seemed less immediate and

1849
01:09:53,510 --> 01:09:52,239
definitive from long delays and data and

1850
01:09:55,510 --> 01:09:53,520
images

1851
01:09:57,270 --> 01:09:55,520
in addition to technical issues the

1852
01:10:00,070 --> 01:09:57,280
federal government shut down and delayed

1853
01:10:03,110 --> 01:10:00,080
the initial briefing from december 19 to

1854
01:10:05,430 --> 01:10:03,120
january 22nd which is why

1855
01:10:11,590 --> 01:10:05,440
the articles for this particular mission

1856
01:10:15,750 --> 01:10:13,830
moving on to cassini the cassini mission

1857
01:10:17,750 --> 01:10:15,760
became an international endeavor between

1858
01:10:19,990 --> 01:10:17,760
nasa the european space agency and the

1859
01:10:22,470 --> 01:10:20,000
italian space agency the cassini

1860
01:10:24,470 --> 01:10:22,480
spacecraft also carried the huygens

1861
01:10:26,550 --> 01:10:24,480
probe that would be released into the

1862
01:10:27,430 --> 01:10:26,560
atmosphere of titan saturn's largest

1863
01:10:30,229 --> 01:10:27,440
moon

1864
01:10:33,270 --> 01:10:30,239
cassini-huygens launched on october 15

1865
01:10:37,510 --> 01:10:33,280
1997 and finally arrived at saturn on

1866
01:10:43,350 --> 01:10:41,030
now this is an example of a article

1867
01:10:45,990 --> 01:10:43,360
published by john noble wilford in the

1868
01:10:49,910 --> 01:10:46,000
new york times 31 moons now close enough

1869
01:10:51,910 --> 01:10:49,920
to touch on june 15 2004 this is about

1870
01:10:53,189 --> 01:10:51,920
two weeks before

1871
01:10:55,110 --> 01:10:53,199
cassini

1872
01:10:56,870 --> 01:10:55,120
makes it to saturn you get the initial

1873
01:10:59,110 --> 01:10:56,880
photos from that

1874
01:11:01,030 --> 01:10:59,120
and i have this here because i want to

1875
01:11:02,709 --> 01:11:01,040
point out

1876
01:11:04,870 --> 01:11:02,719
for newspapers there's something called

1877
01:11:06,550 --> 01:11:04,880
above the fold and below the fold above

1878
01:11:09,110 --> 01:11:06,560
the fold

1879
01:11:10,870 --> 01:11:09,120
here on this particular page well it is

1880
01:11:13,430 --> 01:11:10,880
the science time so it's still within

1881
01:11:15,350 --> 01:11:13,440
the newspaper but for the front page of

1882
01:11:16,870 --> 01:11:15,360
this particular section you have

1883
01:11:18,790 --> 01:11:16,880
something about hair

1884
01:11:20,870 --> 01:11:18,800
restoration techniques

1885
01:11:23,750 --> 01:11:20,880
which apparently to the editors was more

1886
01:11:25,189 --> 01:11:23,760
important than this preview of saturn's

1887
01:11:28,870 --> 01:11:25,199
moons

1888
01:11:30,630 --> 01:11:28,880
and also inside and a couple pages later

1889
01:11:33,430 --> 01:11:30,640
i found interesting there's an article

1890
01:11:36,550 --> 01:11:33,440
by kenneth chang made making science

1891
01:11:38,790 --> 01:11:36,560
fact now chronicling science fiction

1892
01:11:41,270 --> 01:11:38,800
and it's about donna shirley who managed

1893
01:11:43,270 --> 01:11:41,280
the mars exploration program and led the

1894
01:11:44,550 --> 01:11:43,280
team that built the bars pathfinder

1895
01:11:46,229 --> 01:11:44,560
rover

1896
01:11:48,149 --> 01:11:46,239
has become the new director for the

1897
01:11:49,510 --> 01:11:48,159
science fiction museum and hall of fame

1898
01:11:51,189 --> 01:11:49,520
in seattle

1899
01:11:53,110 --> 01:11:51,199
and there's some comments in there about

1900
01:11:55,430 --> 01:11:53,120
using science fiction to excite and

1901
01:11:57,270 --> 01:11:55,440
teach people about science

1902
01:11:59,510 --> 01:11:57,280
so i have this particular example

1903
01:12:04,070 --> 01:11:59,520
because i i like the juxtaposition of

1904
01:12:08,470 --> 01:12:06,709
the 1997 mars pathfinder landing may

1905
01:12:10,950 --> 01:12:08,480
have become the first event to make the

1906
01:12:12,870 --> 01:12:10,960
ground breaking transition into digital

1907
01:12:15,270 --> 01:12:12,880
media and redefine how the general

1908
01:12:17,709 --> 01:12:15,280
public learns about outer space

1909
01:12:21,270 --> 01:12:17,719
the new york times reported

1910
01:12:23,110 --> 01:12:21,280
566 million hits in 30 days and 47

1911
01:12:24,870 --> 01:12:23,120
million hits as the highest number on a

1912
01:12:29,990 --> 01:12:24,880
single day which surpassed the

1913
01:12:36,709 --> 01:12:33,430
here's the artistic word cloud

1914
01:12:39,189 --> 01:12:36,719
and here's more readable one

1915
01:12:41,110 --> 01:12:39,199
this was generated again from selected

1916
01:12:43,189 --> 01:12:41,120
articles from the new york times and

1917
01:12:49,510 --> 01:12:43,199
washington post and this time it's from

1918
01:12:53,030 --> 01:12:51,910
voyager rep

1919
01:12:55,270 --> 01:12:53,040
wrong page

1920
01:12:56,870 --> 01:12:55,280
by 2004 i can't just talk about

1921
01:12:58,310 --> 01:12:56,880
newspapers anymore as a source for

1922
01:13:00,790 --> 01:12:58,320
information because we're firmly into

1923
01:13:02,229 --> 01:13:00,800
the digital age while newspapers sources

1924
01:13:04,390 --> 01:13:02,239
decreased i'm finding more short

1925
01:13:07,189 --> 01:13:04,400
mentions on cable news shows and

1926
01:13:09,270 --> 01:13:07,199
web publications like space daily

1927
01:13:11,990 --> 01:13:09,280
during the 64 hours around the saturn

1928
01:13:14,270 --> 01:13:12,000
orbit insertion period space ref

1929
01:13:16,830 --> 01:13:14,280
reported

1930
01:13:18,630 --> 01:13:16,840
136.6 million hits to the mission's

1931
01:13:20,950 --> 01:13:18,640
website

1932
01:13:22,390 --> 01:13:20,960
when huygens landed on titan issa

1933
01:13:25,189 --> 01:13:22,400
reported on their website that they

1934
01:13:27,910 --> 01:13:25,199
received 919

1935
01:13:29,430 --> 01:13:27,920
000 visitor external visitors and 6.8

1936
01:13:33,110 --> 01:13:29,440
million page views

1937
01:13:35,590 --> 01:13:33,120
on january 15 2005.

1938
01:13:37,270 --> 01:13:35,600
looking at this word cloud carolyn porco

1939
01:13:39,430 --> 01:13:37,280
lead for the cassini imaging team

1940
01:13:40,950 --> 01:13:39,440
appears because she gets quoted a lot in

1941
01:13:42,790 --> 01:13:40,960
the news coverage

1942
01:13:44,950 --> 01:13:42,800
wilford quotes her about the beauty and

1943
01:13:46,630 --> 01:13:44,960
clarity in the black and white images as

1944
01:13:48,229 --> 01:13:46,640
just mind-blowing

1945
01:13:51,590 --> 01:13:48,239
while explaining that color would have

1946
01:13:54,390 --> 01:13:51,600
reduced the total quantity possible

1947
01:13:57,510 --> 01:13:54,400
orco presented the ted talks in october

1948
01:14:00,310 --> 01:13:57,520
2007 the ted conferences invite speakers

1949
01:14:02,310 --> 01:14:00,320
to discuss ideas worth spreading and

1950
01:14:04,709 --> 01:14:02,320
their videos have been available online

1951
01:14:06,149 --> 01:14:04,719
since june 2006

1952
01:14:08,470 --> 01:14:06,159
her visibility on the web is the

1953
01:14:11,110 --> 01:14:08,480
development of the digital age and that

1954
01:14:17,830 --> 01:14:11,120
still continues to draw visitors and new

1955
01:14:21,430 --> 01:14:19,669
while cassini made its own new

1956
01:14:23,430 --> 01:14:21,440
scientific discoveries voyager

1957
01:14:25,430 --> 01:14:23,440
technically claimed the new status more

1958
01:14:27,110 --> 01:14:25,440
than a mission returning for further

1959
01:14:29,270 --> 01:14:27,120
observation

1960
01:14:32,390 --> 01:14:29,280
cassini images have also been labeled as

1961
01:14:34,070 --> 01:14:32,400
art in some online communities and blogs

1962
01:14:36,630 --> 01:14:34,080
in comparison to the hubble space

1963
01:14:40,229 --> 01:14:36,640
telescope's popular brightly colored

1964
01:14:42,070 --> 01:14:40,239
images cassini images also often hold a

1965
01:14:46,229 --> 01:14:42,080
stark quality in black and white that

1966
01:14:48,070 --> 01:14:46,239
emphasizes the contrast in space

1967
01:14:50,149 --> 01:14:48,080
the voyager mission illustrated how the

1968
01:14:51,830 --> 01:14:50,159
mass media traditionally advanced

1969
01:14:53,110 --> 01:14:51,840
scientific discoveries into the public

1970
01:14:54,870 --> 01:14:53,120
understanding

1971
01:14:56,470 --> 01:14:54,880
the information from the press releases

1972
01:14:58,630 --> 01:14:56,480
and briefings presented technical

1973
01:15:00,550 --> 01:14:58,640
science that the journalist expanded

1974
01:15:02,149 --> 01:15:00,560
upon to make the stories interesting for

1975
01:15:03,590 --> 01:15:02,159
the public

1976
01:15:05,510 --> 01:15:03,600
in the process the mass media

1977
01:15:07,430 --> 01:15:05,520
necessarily popularized and simplified

1978
01:15:08,870 --> 01:15:07,440
the science through real-world analogies

1979
01:15:10,550 --> 01:15:08,880
or references

1980
01:15:12,149 --> 01:15:10,560
the journalists also added the human

1981
01:15:13,590 --> 01:15:12,159
element through emotional cues and

1982
01:15:15,430 --> 01:15:13,600
quotes

1983
01:15:17,189 --> 01:15:15,440
although journalists often attributed

1984
01:15:19,830 --> 01:15:17,199
surprise and wonder to the scientists

1985
01:15:21,910 --> 01:15:19,840
they also made statistical statistical

1986
01:15:23,990 --> 01:15:21,920
or philosophic

1987
01:15:26,790 --> 01:15:24,000
philosophical appeals for their

1988
01:15:29,110 --> 01:15:26,800
audiences to feel wonder as well

1989
01:15:30,630 --> 01:15:29,120
a small robotic spacecraft hurtling

1990
01:15:32,310 --> 01:15:30,640
millions of miles

1991
01:15:35,030 --> 01:15:32,320
learning something scientists had not

1992
01:15:37,750 --> 01:15:35,040
known before or even simple curiosity as

1993
01:15:39,830 --> 01:15:37,760
a driving human characteristic

1994
01:15:42,229 --> 01:15:39,840
in addition the images became both the

1995
01:15:44,229 --> 01:15:42,239
source and evidence for wonder viewers

1996
01:15:47,590 --> 01:15:44,239
might feel all over the planetary

1997
01:15:49,910 --> 01:15:47,600
snapshots and they might also be amazed

1998
01:15:51,590 --> 01:15:49,920
at the technological prowess necessary

1999
01:15:53,830 --> 01:15:51,600
in obtaining the picture through by the

2000
01:15:56,310 --> 01:15:53,840
guys

2001
01:15:58,310 --> 01:15:56,320
during galileo readers got continually

2002
01:16:01,110 --> 01:15:58,320
reminded about the many disasters and

2003
01:16:02,870 --> 01:16:01,120
news coverage upon reaching its desk and

2004
01:16:05,510 --> 01:16:02,880
the news coverage upon reaching its

2005
01:16:07,910 --> 01:16:05,520
destination seems to have had less

2006
01:16:09,590 --> 01:16:07,920
impact without new images alongside the

2007
01:16:11,910 --> 01:16:09,600
text

2008
01:16:13,910 --> 01:16:11,920
the galileo mission coverage also seems

2009
01:16:15,669 --> 01:16:13,920
to follow the predictable patterns

2010
01:16:17,990 --> 01:16:15,679
driven from press release to news

2011
01:16:19,830 --> 01:16:18,000
article during this time period

2012
01:16:21,510 --> 01:16:19,840
now a different aspect of the galileo

2013
01:16:23,750 --> 01:16:21,520
mission may have

2014
01:16:25,430 --> 01:16:23,760
drastically different results but if

2015
01:16:27,750 --> 01:16:25,440
you've noticed i'm

2016
01:16:29,669 --> 01:16:27,760
pinpointing the moment of when the

2017
01:16:33,110 --> 01:16:29,679
primary mission begins often when the

2018
01:16:34,950 --> 01:16:33,120
planetary encounter begins

2019
01:16:37,430 --> 01:16:34,960
cassini becomes remarkable for breaking

2020
01:16:39,110 --> 01:16:37,440
these patterns using web publishing

2021
01:16:40,470 --> 01:16:39,120
more information about new scientific

2022
01:16:42,070 --> 01:16:40,480
discoveries appear on the mission

2023
01:16:44,790 --> 01:16:42,080
website than gets followed by the

2024
01:16:46,870 --> 01:16:44,800
national print and television media

2025
01:16:49,030 --> 01:16:46,880
information sources proliferate over the

2026
01:16:53,590 --> 01:16:49,040
web from traditional journalism to space

2027
01:16:58,630 --> 01:16:56,470
what does this digital transition mean

2028
01:17:01,189 --> 01:16:58,640
some digital evangelists have promoted

2029
01:17:03,030 --> 01:17:01,199
democratization through new media while

2030
01:17:05,430 --> 01:17:03,040
others have expressed concerns about the

2031
01:17:07,189 --> 01:17:05,440
web that have contracted in different

2032
01:17:09,350 --> 01:17:07,199
ways

2033
01:17:11,590 --> 01:17:09,360
the internet allows users to choose what

2034
01:17:13,910 --> 01:17:11,600
to view where to view it and whether to

2035
01:17:15,510 --> 01:17:13,920
participate for nearly an infinite

2036
01:17:17,750 --> 01:17:15,520
number of interests

2037
01:17:19,669 --> 01:17:17,760
for the publication side writers or

2038
01:17:21,990 --> 01:17:19,679
creators might find greater audiences

2039
01:17:24,070 --> 01:17:22,000
online through blogs and sharing sites

2040
01:17:25,590 --> 01:17:24,080
than traditional media

2041
01:17:27,590 --> 01:17:25,600
the internet however becomes an

2042
01:17:30,470 --> 01:17:27,600
overwhelming

2043
01:17:32,470 --> 01:17:30,480
in quantity and abundance visitors

2044
01:17:35,350 --> 01:17:32,480
develop filters or act more selectively

2045
01:17:36,950 --> 01:17:35,360
to manage the information deluge which

2046
01:17:39,350 --> 01:17:36,960
also results

2047
01:17:41,350 --> 01:17:39,360
narrows

2048
01:17:42,950 --> 01:17:41,360
what they access based on their active

2049
01:17:45,110 --> 01:17:42,960
interests

2050
01:17:46,870 --> 01:17:45,120
in other words interested audiences may

2051
01:17:48,790 --> 01:17:46,880
seek information only about their

2052
01:17:50,470 --> 01:17:48,800
particular interests and not the wider

2053
01:17:52,630 --> 01:17:50,480
world web

2054
01:17:54,630 --> 01:17:52,640
it becomes significantly harder to gauge

2055
01:17:56,630 --> 01:17:54,640
public enthusiasm for planetary

2056
01:17:58,790 --> 01:17:56,640
exploration

2057
01:18:00,709 --> 01:17:58,800
when a handful of published editorials

2058
01:18:02,070 --> 01:18:00,719
used to stimulate and indicate

2059
01:18:04,630 --> 01:18:02,080
conversation about a relevant

2060
01:18:06,870 --> 01:18:04,640
contemporary topic and now the entire

2061
01:18:09,350 --> 01:18:06,880
internet has thousands upon thousands of

2062
01:18:11,750 --> 01:18:09,360
opinions and topics

2063
01:18:13,590 --> 01:18:11,760
despite these issues the web remains

2064
01:18:16,630 --> 01:18:13,600
essential as a direct method to

2065
01:18:18,870 --> 01:18:16,640
disseminate information and science news

2066
01:18:21,110 --> 01:18:18,880
remains strong on the web although its

2067
01:18:23,669 --> 01:18:21,120
sources for the public have deviated

2068
01:18:38,070 --> 01:18:23,679
greatly from the comfortable definition

2069
01:18:43,030 --> 01:18:38,830
we have

2070
01:18:50,229 --> 01:18:43,040
questions for this perfectly timed talk

2071
01:18:53,270 --> 01:18:51,669
but you mentioned

2072
01:18:54,630 --> 01:18:53,280
digital publication and the use of

2073
01:18:57,590 --> 01:18:54,640
websites so

2074
01:19:00,390 --> 01:18:57,600
from my insight is inside jpl's media

2075
01:19:03,030 --> 01:19:00,400
relations and so forth is that there's

2076
01:19:05,669 --> 01:19:03,040
there's now perceived attention between

2077
01:19:08,470 --> 01:19:05,679
traditional media and our use of web

2078
01:19:11,030 --> 01:19:08,480
publication is the same time is that we

2079
01:19:12,709 --> 01:19:11,040
nasa jpl want to market itself ourselves

2080
01:19:13,910 --> 01:19:12,719
to traditional media at the same time

2081
01:19:15,830 --> 01:19:13,920
we're also trying to sell ourselves

2082
01:19:16,630 --> 01:19:15,840
directly to the public

2083
01:19:19,030 --> 01:19:16,640
and

2084
01:19:20,630 --> 01:19:19,040
sometimes from the outside

2085
01:19:29,750 --> 01:19:20,640
perspective those two things are seem to

2086
01:19:34,070 --> 01:19:31,590
then you don't need to answer it

2087
01:19:35,669 --> 01:19:34,080
jeff hi jeff thousands face review uh

2088
01:19:37,830 --> 01:19:35,679
it's very interesting presentation i

2089
01:19:39,510 --> 01:19:37,840
wanted to expand upon or maybe maybe

2090
01:19:41,510 --> 01:19:39,520
even challenge a little bit one of your

2091
01:19:42,870 --> 01:19:41,520
premises towards the very end about

2092
01:19:44,470 --> 01:19:42,880
gauging public interest and the

2093
01:19:46,149 --> 01:19:44,480
challenge of trying to gauge public

2094
01:19:48,149 --> 01:19:46,159
interest now in this fractured media

2095
01:19:50,070 --> 01:19:48,159
environment it seems in some respect it

2096
01:19:51,750 --> 01:19:50,080
might actually be easier to track public

2097
01:19:53,270 --> 01:19:51,760
interest because you now know how many

2098
01:19:54,870 --> 01:19:53,280
people you know how many hits are on a

2099
01:19:56,950 --> 01:19:54,880
website

2100
01:19:58,390 --> 01:19:56,960
you know nasa can provide lots of

2101
01:19:59,590 --> 01:19:58,400
information about how many millions of

2102
01:20:01,990 --> 01:19:59,600
people viewed the web stream of the

2103
01:20:03,830 --> 01:20:02,000
curiosity mars landing for example

2104
01:20:05,430 --> 01:20:03,840
whereas you don't know how many people

2105
01:20:08,629 --> 01:20:05,440
read that editorial in the new york

2106
01:20:09,830 --> 01:20:08,639
times or the washington post uh about

2107
01:20:11,830 --> 01:20:09,840
promoting

2108
01:20:13,510 --> 01:20:11,840
or or taking a stand on space

2109
01:20:15,189 --> 01:20:13,520
exploration one way or another you spend

2110
01:20:18,149 --> 01:20:15,199
on that point a little bit on on the

2111
01:20:20,870 --> 01:20:18,159
challenges of of public perceptions and

2112
01:20:22,470 --> 01:20:20,880
engaging that level of interest

2113
01:20:25,430 --> 01:20:22,480
well i can answer that a little bit with

2114
01:20:27,750 --> 01:20:25,440
the challenges of engaging new media in

2115
01:20:30,790 --> 01:20:27,760
general when you say there are a lot of

2116
01:20:32,229 --> 01:20:30,800
statistics on web hits i could argue the

2117
01:20:33,990 --> 01:20:32,239
same thing about newspapers and

2118
01:20:36,709 --> 01:20:34,000
circulation numbers and subscription

2119
01:20:39,030 --> 01:20:36,719
numbers we may have these numbers but

2120
01:20:42,950 --> 01:20:39,040
they don't necessarily mean anything

2121
01:20:45,510 --> 01:20:42,960
unless you have a good way to

2122
01:20:48,629 --> 01:20:45,520
refine them down just because

2123
01:20:51,750 --> 01:20:48,639
the mars pathfinder website gained

2124
01:20:53,830 --> 01:20:51,760
400 million hits across the period of a

2125
01:20:57,990 --> 01:20:53,840
month well what do we measure that

2126
01:20:58,950 --> 01:20:58,000
against and hits tends to be sort of a

2127
01:21:00,950 --> 01:20:58,960
fuzzy

2128
01:21:03,350 --> 01:21:00,960
measuring tool

2129
01:21:06,550 --> 01:21:03,360
we now know that hits can mean

2130
01:21:09,110 --> 01:21:06,560
every time a person came to a website

2131
01:21:11,750 --> 01:21:09,120
other people will instead say unique

2132
01:21:15,750 --> 01:21:11,760
visitors as an indication of how many

2133
01:21:17,590 --> 01:21:15,760
individual people came to the website

2134
01:21:19,189 --> 01:21:17,600
we also don't

2135
01:21:21,990 --> 01:21:19,199
necessarily

2136
01:21:23,110 --> 01:21:22,000
have that kind of information available

2137
01:21:24,950 --> 01:21:23,120
so

2138
01:21:26,390 --> 01:21:24,960
in a way when i say

2139
01:21:28,790 --> 01:21:26,400
it's difficult to

2140
01:21:30,629 --> 01:21:28,800
take these numbers how do you aggregate

2141
01:21:33,350 --> 01:21:30,639
these numbers how do you take the

2142
01:21:35,750 --> 01:21:33,360
numbers from cnn from space daily from

2143
01:21:37,830 --> 01:21:35,760
your website and how do you know how

2144
01:21:39,910 --> 01:21:37,840
many of these people are the same people

2145
01:21:41,830 --> 01:21:39,920
how many of them are different people

2146
01:21:43,750 --> 01:21:41,840
and like some of the other presentations

2147
01:21:46,790 --> 01:21:43,760
we've heard this session

2148
01:21:49,110 --> 01:21:46,800
if there is so much interest how has it

2149
01:21:50,629 --> 01:21:49,120
not translated to some sort of public

2150
01:21:54,229 --> 01:21:50,639
policy boost

2151
01:21:56,870 --> 01:21:54,239
for planetary exploration

2152
01:21:58,470 --> 01:21:56,880
good good points all thanks

2153
01:22:01,110 --> 01:21:58,480
yeah i wanted to

2154
01:22:03,990 --> 01:22:01,120
john what more i wanted to touch on uh a

2155
01:22:05,669 --> 01:22:04,000
related angle and that is uh you know

2156
01:22:07,510 --> 01:22:05,679
when 100 million people look at

2157
01:22:09,750 --> 01:22:07,520
something on the web those are people

2158
01:22:12,390 --> 01:22:09,760
that were interested in the subject and

2159
01:22:14,229 --> 01:22:12,400
actively looking for it but what about

2160
01:22:15,189 --> 01:22:14,239
the 200 million people

2161
01:22:17,350 --> 01:22:15,199
that

2162
01:22:19,189 --> 01:22:17,360
won't see it at all because

2163
01:22:20,390 --> 01:22:19,199
they don't see it in the newspaper where

2164
01:22:22,470 --> 01:22:20,400
you used to

2165
01:22:25,030 --> 01:22:22,480
accidentally run into it and they didn't

2166
01:22:26,709 --> 01:22:25,040
actively seek it on the web and so how

2167
01:22:28,950 --> 01:22:26,719
do you get

2168
01:22:30,310 --> 01:22:28,960
so you you may be getting a better way

2169
01:22:32,470 --> 01:22:30,320
to reach the people that are already

2170
01:22:34,790 --> 01:22:32,480
interested in space but completely

2171
01:22:37,030 --> 01:22:34,800
missing the general public that doesn't

2172
01:22:38,629 --> 01:22:37,040
have that interest already uh any

2173
01:22:39,910 --> 01:22:38,639
thoughts on that

2174
01:22:41,350 --> 01:22:39,920
well that was pretty much the point i

2175
01:22:44,550 --> 01:22:41,360
was trying to make at the very end of my

2176
01:22:47,669 --> 01:22:44,560
conclusion just because there are direct

2177
01:22:49,350 --> 01:22:47,679
methods for jpl and missions to reach

2178
01:22:51,430 --> 01:22:49,360
the public whether it's through

2179
01:22:53,510 --> 01:22:51,440
newsletters or websites or educational

2180
01:22:56,070 --> 01:22:53,520
material

2181
01:22:57,830 --> 01:22:56,080
how do you count those people and how do

2182
01:23:00,390 --> 01:22:57,840
you know if those people are the same

2183
01:23:01,669 --> 01:23:00,400
ones that will devour space daily every

2184
01:23:02,790 --> 01:23:01,679
day anyway

2185
01:23:04,310 --> 01:23:02,800
or

2186
01:23:07,110 --> 01:23:04,320
is it actually

2187
01:23:09,189 --> 01:23:07,120
a child that has never known anything

2188
01:23:11,189 --> 01:23:09,199
about space and is now really starting

2189
01:23:13,830 --> 01:23:11,199
to get interested

2190
01:23:16,790 --> 01:23:13,840
with the web it's very difficult to know

2191
01:23:19,830 --> 01:23:16,800
who it is that's coming to your website

2192
01:23:22,629 --> 01:23:19,840
i mean the web can get some statistics

2193
01:23:24,390 --> 01:23:22,639
off your cookies or whatever but

2194
01:23:26,310 --> 01:23:24,400
generally they know

2195
01:23:28,470 --> 01:23:26,320
what computer you're using and where

2196
01:23:30,870 --> 01:23:28,480
you're coming from in the united states

2197
01:23:33,270 --> 01:23:30,880
or other countries maybe but they don't

2198
01:23:34,950 --> 01:23:33,280
actually know very much about you

2199
01:23:36,310 --> 01:23:34,960
whether you're male or female whether

2200
01:23:39,030 --> 01:23:36,320
you're in the space

2201
01:23:41,110 --> 01:23:39,040
industry or you're just a random member

2202
01:23:42,070 --> 01:23:41,120
of the general public

2203
01:23:44,470 --> 01:23:42,080
so

2204
01:23:46,470 --> 01:23:44,480
that is the difficulty with determining

2205
01:23:49,110 --> 01:23:46,480
audience anymore how do you reach the

2206
01:23:50,310 --> 01:23:49,120
people that you know hasn't seen this

2207
01:23:52,390 --> 01:23:50,320
before

2208
01:23:53,830 --> 01:23:52,400
versus the audience that you know is

2209
01:23:55,990 --> 01:23:53,840
definitely interested because they're

2210
01:23:57,750 --> 01:23:56,000
subscribing to your newsletters now and

2211
01:24:00,629 --> 01:23:57,760
they're coming to your websites during

2212
01:24:04,790 --> 01:24:03,030
i'm going to ask you guys to stay keep

2213
01:24:06,310 --> 01:24:04,800
standing because we're going to have a

2214
01:24:07,590 --> 01:24:06,320
panel discussion now but stay with there

2215
01:24:09,910 --> 01:24:07,600
you'll get a chance and also i know

2216
01:24:11,830 --> 01:24:09,920
lindley had a question about asteroids

2217
01:24:14,629 --> 01:24:11,840
so i want to invite my panelists to come

2218
01:24:17,430 --> 01:24:14,639
up and to have a seat

2219
01:24:19,590 --> 01:24:17,440
don't i do want to bring another voice

2220
01:24:22,390 --> 01:24:19,600
to this discussion though because we've

2221
01:24:24,550 --> 01:24:22,400
been talking about public perceptions

2222
01:24:26,550 --> 01:24:24,560
and we have been talking about our

2223
01:24:29,189 --> 01:24:26,560
perceptions of the public

2224
01:24:31,030 --> 01:24:29,199
but the public isn't really here

2225
01:24:33,350 --> 01:24:31,040
we're all people who are involved

2226
01:24:34,870 --> 01:24:33,360
somehow and i wanted to share with you

2227
01:24:37,270 --> 01:24:34,880
an actual

2228
01:24:39,270 --> 01:24:37,280
statement from somebody from the public

2229
01:24:41,270 --> 01:24:39,280
which is short

2230
01:24:42,870 --> 01:24:41,280
it was written after the curiosity

2231
01:24:45,590 --> 01:24:42,880
landing and it was sent to president

2232
01:24:47,430 --> 01:24:45,600
obama who sent it to jim green

2233
01:24:49,430 --> 01:24:47,440
who then shared it with me and i

2234
01:24:51,590 --> 01:24:49,440
contacted this young person and said can

2235
01:24:52,629 --> 01:24:51,600
i share with this group because we're

2236
01:24:53,750 --> 01:24:52,639
going to be talking about public

2237
01:24:56,310 --> 01:24:53,760
perceptions

2238
01:24:57,510 --> 01:24:56,320
of nasa so i want to read this to you so

2239
01:25:00,149 --> 01:24:57,520
that you hear

2240
01:25:03,110 --> 01:25:00,159
the current public's voice this is not

2241
01:25:05,030 --> 01:25:03,120
ancient history or like us

2242
01:25:06,709 --> 01:25:05,040
but this is current all right this is a

2243
01:25:10,070 --> 01:25:06,719
young man

2244
01:25:12,470 --> 01:25:10,080
and um he says dear president obama

2245
01:25:14,870 --> 01:25:12,480
i just wanted to let you know how much

2246
01:25:16,310 --> 01:25:14,880
curiosity successful landing on mars

2247
01:25:18,950 --> 01:25:16,320
means to me

2248
01:25:21,750 --> 01:25:18,960
the fact that any organization in the

2249
01:25:24,629 --> 01:25:21,760
world could send a one-ton mobile

2250
01:25:27,830 --> 01:25:24,639
research platform to mars and land it

2251
01:25:29,750 --> 01:25:27,840
safely much less using a hovering rocket

2252
01:25:32,790 --> 01:25:29,760
propelled sky crane

2253
01:25:35,430 --> 01:25:32,800
is a triumph of human intelligence

2254
01:25:37,750 --> 01:25:35,440
civilization and cooperation

2255
01:25:39,430 --> 01:25:37,760
the fact that it was our national

2256
01:25:41,189 --> 01:25:39,440
aeronautics and space administration

2257
01:25:43,750 --> 01:25:41,199
makes me more proud to be an american

2258
01:25:45,750 --> 01:25:43,760
than anything has in a long time

2259
01:25:48,310 --> 01:25:45,760
what truly inspires me about this

2260
01:25:50,470 --> 01:25:48,320
mission however is not the flawless

2261
01:25:52,629 --> 01:25:50,480
success the nasa scientists and

2262
01:25:55,270 --> 01:25:52,639
engineers achieved last night

2263
01:25:57,030 --> 01:25:55,280
or the staggering technological advances

2264
01:25:58,790 --> 01:25:57,040
that have been fueled by similar

2265
01:25:59,910 --> 01:25:58,800
exploration

2266
01:26:03,510 --> 01:25:59,920
rather

2267
01:26:06,070 --> 01:26:03,520
it is the unbridled joy and the unity i

2268
01:26:08,470 --> 01:26:06,080
have seen on the faces of the crying

2269
01:26:11,189 --> 01:26:08,480
hugging members of mission control

2270
01:26:13,590 --> 01:26:11,199
in countless celebratory internet posts

2271
01:26:14,870 --> 01:26:13,600
and an excited conversation with people

2272
01:26:18,790 --> 01:26:14,880
this morning

2273
01:26:20,629 --> 01:26:18,800
i am 20 years old and the only times i

2274
01:26:23,030 --> 01:26:20,639
can remember feeling as close to my

2275
01:26:26,070 --> 01:26:23,040
fellow americans as i do now have been

2276
01:26:28,870 --> 01:26:26,080
during national tragedies

2277
01:26:31,270 --> 01:26:28,880
the unifying effect of scientific

2278
01:26:34,470 --> 01:26:31,280
expeditions like the curiosity and the

2279
01:26:36,790 --> 01:26:34,480
apollo landings is incredibly powerful

2280
01:26:39,430 --> 01:26:36,800
all the more so because it is born out

2281
01:26:40,950 --> 01:26:39,440
of triumphant national success rather

2282
01:26:43,990 --> 01:26:40,960
than sorrow

2283
01:26:45,350 --> 01:26:44,000
please continue to fund nasa and its

2284
01:26:48,070 --> 01:26:45,360
expeditions

2285
01:26:50,709 --> 01:26:48,080
in so many ways we lift ourselves up

2286
01:26:54,070 --> 01:26:50,719
when we shoot for the stars sincerely

2287
01:26:57,830 --> 01:26:56,310
beyond the nationalism in the statement

2288
01:27:01,510 --> 01:26:57,840
which is laudable

2289
01:27:02,870 --> 01:27:01,520
i think it touches on the unif unifying

2290
01:27:04,790 --> 01:27:02,880
themes that this brings to all of

2291
01:27:07,189 --> 01:27:04,800
humanity

2292
01:27:09,189 --> 01:27:07,199
like apollo did that wasn't just the us

2293
01:27:11,110 --> 01:27:09,199
although it was but people around the

2294
01:27:12,790 --> 01:27:11,120
world were looking at the moon and

2295
01:27:15,030 --> 01:27:12,800
knowing that humans were walking on the

2296
01:27:17,270 --> 01:27:15,040
moon people around the world were

2297
01:27:20,229 --> 01:27:17,280
looking at mars when we were landing on

2298
01:27:22,470 --> 01:27:20,239
mars and i i think that that that is an

2299
01:27:24,550 --> 01:27:22,480
aspect that we need to keep in mind

2300
01:27:26,149 --> 01:27:24,560
that's what touches people

2301
01:27:28,310 --> 01:27:26,159
we're talking about people here and if

2302
01:27:29,669 --> 01:27:28,320
you noticed on her word clouds

2303
01:27:31,590 --> 01:27:29,679
scientists

2304
01:27:33,030 --> 01:27:31,600
appeared a lot and i think it's because

2305
01:27:35,830 --> 01:27:33,040
it's people

2306
01:27:37,430 --> 01:27:35,840
so you know we're we're at a turning

2307
01:27:40,390 --> 01:27:37,440
point here

2308
01:27:41,990 --> 01:27:40,400
for planetary exploration

2309
01:27:45,030 --> 01:27:42,000
we've been at turning points in the past

2310
01:27:47,669 --> 01:27:45,040
as we heard from john logsdon and others

2311
01:27:48,790 --> 01:27:47,679
nevertheless we are at a turning point

2312
01:27:52,229 --> 01:27:48,800
right now

2313
01:27:53,830 --> 01:27:52,239
and we we know from letters like this

2314
01:27:55,910 --> 01:27:53,840
that the public

2315
01:27:59,590 --> 01:27:55,920
the public perceives planetary

2316
01:28:01,750 --> 01:27:59,600
exploration as a priority for nasa it's

2317
01:28:04,229 --> 01:28:01,760
question in my mind whether nasa

2318
01:28:07,189 --> 01:28:04,239
perceives planetary exploration as a

2319
01:28:09,189 --> 01:28:07,199
priority for nasa we have a choice

2320
01:28:10,790 --> 01:28:09,199
whether or not we can have another 50

2321
01:28:12,950 --> 01:28:10,800
fabulous years

2322
01:28:15,110 --> 01:28:12,960
doing amazing planetary exploration or

2323
01:28:17,430 --> 01:28:15,120
whether we will retreat to being monkeys

2324
01:28:18,950 --> 01:28:17,440
in a dark box

2325
01:28:23,430 --> 01:28:18,960
and with that we're going to open this

2326
01:28:28,390 --> 01:28:25,110
hello i'm actually going to slide this

2327
01:28:30,470 --> 01:28:28,400
because i can't see any of you hi

2328
01:28:32,709 --> 01:28:30,480
um this is just more of a follow-up to

2329
01:28:34,070 --> 01:28:32,719
the social media and i just wanted to

2330
01:28:35,990 --> 01:28:34,080
follow up on the person who asked the

2331
01:28:37,669 --> 01:28:36,000
question about

2332
01:28:39,030 --> 01:28:37,679
tracking in

2333
01:28:40,950 --> 01:28:39,040
in a digital age so i work in digital

2334
01:28:44,709 --> 01:28:40,960
media at national geographic

2335
01:28:47,030 --> 01:28:44,719
and i i would argue that it's incredibly

2336
01:28:49,669 --> 01:28:47,040
it's so much easier to track impact now

2337
01:28:51,110 --> 01:28:49,679
and meaning than it was back when you

2338
01:28:52,870 --> 01:28:51,120
just had a one-way communication you

2339
01:28:54,310 --> 01:28:52,880
don't know the impact i think it's it's

2340
01:28:56,629 --> 01:28:54,320
very difficult to track the impact of

2341
01:28:58,390 --> 01:28:56,639
journalism generally on the public

2342
01:29:00,629 --> 01:28:58,400
um just last night we had bill nye the

2343
01:29:02,790 --> 01:29:00,639
science guy hosting an event at national

2344
01:29:04,790 --> 01:29:02,800
geographic and uh for all intents and

2345
01:29:07,030 --> 01:29:04,800
purposes you would think he's like not

2346
01:29:08,629 --> 01:29:07,040
relevant to more recent generations but

2347
01:29:10,070 --> 01:29:08,639
how many people stood up in the audience

2348
01:29:11,750 --> 01:29:10,080
and said you changed my life you're the

2349
01:29:13,110 --> 01:29:11,760
reason i'm in science you're the reason

2350
01:29:14,950 --> 01:29:13,120
i'm an engineer right now you're the

2351
01:29:16,870 --> 01:29:14,960
reason i'm you know studying what i'm

2352
01:29:19,030 --> 01:29:16,880
studying or just tonight you've changed

2353
01:29:21,189 --> 01:29:19,040
my mind to go study something else and

2354
01:29:22,950 --> 01:29:21,199
and you know public figures like him and

2355
01:29:25,030 --> 01:29:22,960
journalism will never know how many

2356
01:29:27,270 --> 01:29:25,040
people those stories inspired i remember

2357
01:29:28,870 --> 01:29:27,280
voyager being covered in every like it

2358
01:29:30,950 --> 01:29:28,880
might not have been one story i read but

2359
01:29:31,910 --> 01:29:30,960
the collective impact of voyager had an

2360
01:29:33,430 --> 01:29:31,920
impact

2361
01:29:35,030 --> 01:29:33,440
and that's very hard to measure but in

2362
01:29:36,709 --> 01:29:35,040
social we can actually measure that

2363
01:29:38,310 --> 01:29:36,719
engagement now we know how many people

2364
01:29:39,910 --> 01:29:38,320
are talking about it who are commenting

2365
01:29:42,229 --> 01:29:39,920
on it who are sharing it we know the

2366
01:29:43,910 --> 01:29:42,239
extended impact of that we can track

2367
01:29:46,550 --> 01:29:43,920
with social flow the whole like we have

2368
01:29:48,550 --> 01:29:46,560
this unbelievable almost too much

2369
01:29:50,310 --> 01:29:48,560
information about how much engagement

2370
01:29:51,990 --> 01:29:50,320
and sharing is happening so i was just

2371
01:29:53,830 --> 01:29:52,000
here i would bring that in and and

2372
01:29:55,030 --> 01:29:53,840
factor it in more as a commentary

2373
01:29:56,870 --> 01:29:55,040
because i do think the tools are out

2374
01:29:58,470 --> 01:29:56,880
there we do know demographics we do know

2375
01:30:00,070 --> 01:29:58,480
exactly where everybody lives so that's

2376
01:30:01,830 --> 01:30:00,080
great thank you

2377
01:30:03,669 --> 01:30:01,840
i will comment a little bit about that

2378
01:30:05,590 --> 01:30:03,679
and that's the

2379
01:30:08,070 --> 01:30:05,600
fact that i am kind of looking

2380
01:30:11,189 --> 01:30:08,080
retroactively at historical events

2381
01:30:12,790 --> 01:30:11,199
despite the fact that 2004 was not that

2382
01:30:14,950 --> 01:30:12,800
far back into history

2383
01:30:17,750 --> 01:30:14,960
so right now yeah i can look at google

2384
01:30:19,189 --> 01:30:17,760
trends and other tools that tell me lots

2385
01:30:20,390 --> 01:30:19,199
of things about what people are

2386
01:30:21,830 --> 01:30:20,400
searching for

2387
01:30:24,870 --> 01:30:21,840
and that's great

2388
01:30:26,390 --> 01:30:24,880
but i can't go back to even 2004 and

2389
01:30:28,390 --> 01:30:26,400
necessarily pull up the same kind of

2390
01:30:30,950 --> 01:30:28,400
data and that's what i mean by it's

2391
01:30:33,030 --> 01:30:30,960
really difficult to determine audience

2392
01:30:34,709 --> 01:30:33,040
and as a historian

2393
01:30:37,030 --> 01:30:34,719
i will probably always have this

2394
01:30:38,870 --> 01:30:37,040
question unless i kind of look forward

2395
01:30:41,669 --> 01:30:38,880
in the future and start

2396
01:30:42,470 --> 01:30:41,679
storing away this stuff

2397
01:30:44,310 --> 01:30:42,480
so

2398
01:30:47,030 --> 01:30:44,320
it's just a clarification of what i mean

2399
01:30:49,990 --> 01:30:47,040
by the difficulty in it right

2400
01:30:52,310 --> 01:30:50,000
i wanted to offer a tangible example of

2401
01:30:54,790 --> 01:30:52,320
something that susan poulton just said

2402
01:30:57,590 --> 01:30:54,800
from the national geographic uh from my

2403
01:30:59,830 --> 01:30:57,600
own recent experience of understanding

2404
01:31:01,750 --> 01:30:59,840
the impact of the social media the week

2405
01:31:03,189 --> 01:31:01,760
after curiosity landed i just happened

2406
01:31:05,430 --> 01:31:03,199
to be here in town having dinner with

2407
01:31:07,189 --> 01:31:05,440
susan and we were talking about the uh

2408
01:31:09,030 --> 01:31:07,199
about the events over at nat geo which

2409
01:31:12,229 --> 01:31:09,040
we had last night susan is the vice

2410
01:31:14,550 --> 01:31:12,239
president for the digital media division

2411
01:31:17,110 --> 01:31:14,560
of uh national geographic so she knows a

2412
01:31:19,590 --> 01:31:17,120
lot about this stuff and over the course

2413
01:31:21,910 --> 01:31:19,600
of dinner uh she said hey by the way

2414
01:31:23,510 --> 01:31:21,920
have you seen this latest youtube thing

2415
01:31:24,790 --> 01:31:23,520
that just came out today and she pulls

2416
01:31:27,510 --> 01:31:24,800
out her iphone

2417
01:31:29,030 --> 01:31:27,520
and she fires it up and it's where nasa

2418
01:31:31,590 --> 01:31:29,040
and we know it

2419
01:31:33,910 --> 01:31:31,600
it had 382 hits and i suspect most of

2420
01:31:36,550 --> 01:31:33,920
you have seen it by this time the next

2421
01:31:38,470 --> 01:31:36,560
morning i wake up in my hotel room and i

2422
01:31:40,070 --> 01:31:38,480
said geez i got to go get that link and

2423
01:31:42,310 --> 01:31:40,080
see what that and see it again you know

2424
01:31:44,229 --> 01:31:42,320
now that i'm awake and sober and such

2425
01:31:45,990 --> 01:31:44,239
and by that time it was already up to

2426
01:31:47,350 --> 01:31:46,000
300 000.

2427
01:31:49,750 --> 01:31:47,360
and i don't know what it is at this

2428
01:31:51,910 --> 01:31:49,760
point but i mean things like that that

2429
01:31:53,910 --> 01:31:51,920
we do that are so exciting that can

2430
01:31:54,870 --> 01:31:53,920
capture people's imagination can go

2431
01:31:57,350 --> 01:31:54,880
viral

2432
01:31:59,189 --> 01:31:57,360
and as susan had told me

2433
01:32:00,390 --> 01:31:59,199
the key to making this happen is just

2434
01:32:02,629 --> 01:32:00,400
get the stuff out there get the

2435
01:32:04,709 --> 01:32:02,639
information out there let people let the

2436
01:32:06,310 --> 01:32:04,719
people out there in the country take it

2437
01:32:11,350 --> 01:32:06,320
and run with it that's great thank you

2438
01:32:14,629 --> 01:32:12,790
hi janet for testing princeton

2439
01:32:17,189 --> 01:32:14,639
university um that's great you

2440
01:32:18,870 --> 01:32:17,199
discovered nasa and we know it uh that

2441
01:32:20,709 --> 01:32:18,880
link has been out there for a good six

2442
01:32:22,550 --> 01:32:20,719
months so so it may be that you're

2443
01:32:24,070 --> 01:32:22,560
seeing different versions as someone who

2444
01:32:26,149 --> 01:32:24,080
works in human computer interaction and

2445
01:32:27,669 --> 01:32:26,159
publishes in that domain i'd also like

2446
01:32:29,669 --> 01:32:27,679
to make it clear that there's different

2447
01:32:30,709 --> 01:32:29,679
versions of tweeting and retweeting we

2448
01:32:32,709 --> 01:32:30,719
all know the difference between

2449
01:32:34,790 --> 01:32:32,719
different kinds of friends and it's that

2450
01:32:36,070 --> 01:32:34,800
qualitative assessment of what it is

2451
01:32:37,830 --> 01:32:36,080
people are doing with digital material

2452
01:32:38,870 --> 01:32:37,840
that i think is also i'm really glad you

2453
01:32:40,470 --> 01:32:38,880
pointed that out because i think that's

2454
01:32:42,470 --> 01:32:40,480
very tricky to get at despite the

2455
01:32:44,310 --> 01:32:42,480
numbers of counts one can get it's very

2456
01:32:45,990 --> 01:32:44,320
different the qualitative experience but

2457
01:32:47,910 --> 01:32:46,000
that leads into my question which has to

2458
01:32:50,229 --> 01:32:47,920
do with the construction of various

2459
01:32:52,629 --> 01:32:50,239
publics and there's something about the

2460
01:32:54,149 --> 01:32:52,639
use of the monolithic term public

2461
01:32:56,709 --> 01:32:54,159
again that is a facing the fact that

2462
01:32:58,709 --> 01:32:56,719
these media and these personages whether

2463
01:33:01,030 --> 01:32:58,719
they're uh whether you're making a film

2464
01:33:03,270 --> 01:33:01,040
or whether you're uh um

2465
01:33:05,590 --> 01:33:03,280
or whether you're a reporter that you're

2466
01:33:07,110 --> 01:33:05,600
not just seamlessly reporting or

2467
01:33:09,030 --> 01:33:07,120
seamlessly producing something but

2468
01:33:11,350 --> 01:33:09,040
you're also producing a particular

2469
01:33:13,270 --> 01:33:11,360
public and a particular audience and i'd

2470
01:33:15,430 --> 01:33:13,280
really like to know a little more about

2471
01:33:16,790 --> 01:33:15,440
the fine distinctions between you know

2472
01:33:17,750 --> 01:33:16,800
if you're writing for the new york times

2473
01:33:19,030 --> 01:33:17,760
it's very different than if you're

2474
01:33:20,709 --> 01:33:19,040
writing for

2475
01:33:21,669 --> 01:33:20,719
science science daily it's very

2476
01:33:22,870 --> 01:33:21,679
different than the big spreads on

2477
01:33:25,270 --> 01:33:22,880
voyager that i remember seeing a

2478
01:33:26,790 --> 01:33:25,280
national geographic when i was a child

2479
01:33:27,990 --> 01:33:26,800
if you're producing you know documentary

2480
01:33:29,990 --> 01:33:28,000
films it's very different than if you're

2481
01:33:30,950 --> 01:33:30,000
producing deep impact et cetera so i

2482
01:33:33,030 --> 01:33:30,960
really like to know a little bit more

2483
01:33:34,310 --> 01:33:33,040
about the fine grain distinctions in

2484
01:33:36,229 --> 01:33:34,320
publix

2485
01:33:37,669 --> 01:33:36,239
that nasa is speaking to and the variety

2486
01:33:39,750 --> 01:33:37,679
of different media that they're using to

2487
01:33:41,590 --> 01:33:39,760
do that

2488
01:33:43,990 --> 01:33:41,600
thank you for that because it's actually

2489
01:33:46,229 --> 01:33:44,000
far more detail that i would go into in

2490
01:33:47,590 --> 01:33:46,239
the paper but wouldn't be able to do in

2491
01:33:51,030 --> 01:33:47,600
the presentation

2492
01:33:53,510 --> 01:33:51,040
and i try to meet that challenge by

2493
01:33:56,070 --> 01:33:53,520
trying to go across a variety of major

2494
01:33:57,510 --> 01:33:56,080
national papers so today i think i

2495
01:33:59,750 --> 01:33:57,520
talked about the washington post and new

2496
01:34:01,990 --> 01:33:59,760
york times in the la times

2497
01:34:04,550 --> 01:34:02,000
i took a variety of more papers than

2498
01:34:05,830 --> 01:34:04,560
that to try to get more of an aggregate

2499
01:34:07,830 --> 01:34:05,840
sample

2500
01:34:10,229 --> 01:34:07,840
with different kinds of audiences and i

2501
01:34:11,990 --> 01:34:10,239
recognize that a newspaper reading

2502
01:34:14,470 --> 01:34:12,000
audience is

2503
01:34:16,310 --> 01:34:14,480
often a somewhat more educated audience

2504
01:34:17,910 --> 01:34:16,320
who wants to pay attention to what's

2505
01:34:18,629 --> 01:34:17,920
happening in the news

2506
01:34:21,510 --> 01:34:18,639
so

2507
01:34:24,550 --> 01:34:21,520
in of itself i've limited the public to

2508
01:34:26,390 --> 01:34:24,560
that particular segment that is either

2509
01:34:28,470 --> 01:34:26,400
reading the paper or watching the

2510
01:34:30,950 --> 01:34:28,480
nightly news which is actually most of

2511
01:34:32,709 --> 01:34:30,960
the hits that i get for even voyager

2512
01:34:35,510 --> 01:34:32,719
coverage it's the evening news from the

2513
01:34:38,870 --> 01:34:35,520
three major networks

2514
01:34:43,109 --> 01:34:40,950
there's also things like the magazines

2515
01:34:45,030 --> 01:34:43,119
you mentioned like national geographic i

2516
01:34:46,310 --> 01:34:45,040
can look in newsweek which is definitely

2517
01:34:48,390 --> 01:34:46,320
a different audience than national

2518
01:34:50,310 --> 01:34:48,400
geographic

2519
01:34:52,790 --> 01:34:50,320
i actually do tend to stay away from the

2520
01:34:54,310 --> 01:34:52,800
more specialized publications like

2521
01:34:57,030 --> 01:34:54,320
aviation week

2522
01:34:59,510 --> 01:34:57,040
because i know that that audience is

2523
01:35:00,950 --> 01:34:59,520
very self-selected in wanting to see

2524
01:35:04,310 --> 01:35:00,960
that news

2525
01:35:05,189 --> 01:35:04,320
so i've even looked at

2526
01:35:07,990 --> 01:35:05,199
kind of

2527
01:35:11,109 --> 01:35:08,000
not so great newspapers like usa today

2528
01:35:13,270 --> 01:35:11,119
to see if they do mention

2529
01:35:16,149 --> 01:35:13,280
these missions at all because it's a

2530
01:35:18,709 --> 01:35:16,159
great source that's a quick easy read

2531
01:35:20,229 --> 01:35:18,719
and it's found in hotels all around the

2532
01:35:21,990 --> 01:35:20,239
united states

2533
01:35:24,149 --> 01:35:22,000
so

2534
01:35:26,310 --> 01:35:24,159
i do kind of toss around the public in

2535
01:35:28,629 --> 01:35:26,320
my presentation a lot without making

2536
01:35:29,669 --> 01:35:28,639
this specification

2537
01:35:35,590 --> 01:35:29,679
that

2538
01:35:38,550 --> 01:35:35,600
to keep up on national news and chooses

2539
01:35:40,070 --> 01:35:38,560
to keep themselves informed

2540
01:35:41,669 --> 01:35:40,080
to answer your question more generally i

2541
01:35:43,430 --> 01:35:41,679
think nasa is very aware of the

2542
01:35:45,990 --> 01:35:43,440
different audiences that are out there

2543
01:35:48,470 --> 01:35:46,000
and they do track things like usa today

2544
01:35:50,149 --> 01:35:48,480
public news and the new york that we're

2545
01:35:51,590 --> 01:35:50,159
working on the times square because they

2546
01:35:53,830 --> 01:35:51,600
know they're reaching a different

2547
01:35:56,390 --> 01:35:53,840
audience in times square than they would

2548
01:35:58,070 --> 01:35:56,400
in the new york times so they're very

2549
01:36:00,070 --> 01:35:58,080
aware of that and

2550
01:36:01,750 --> 01:36:00,080
that factors in let's keep going so we

2551
01:36:03,350 --> 01:36:01,760
get a few more questions in and i know

2552
01:36:05,350 --> 01:36:03,360
lindley you were very patient last time

2553
01:36:07,350 --> 01:36:05,360
so i'm calling you now that's okay

2554
01:36:10,870 --> 01:36:07,360
thanks so lonely johnson your local

2555
01:36:12,470 --> 01:36:10,880
planetary asteroid defense officer

2556
01:36:14,870 --> 01:36:12,480
the question is going to be for laura

2557
01:36:15,990 --> 01:36:14,880
but i also appreciate the thoughts of

2558
01:36:16,870 --> 01:36:16,000
the rest of you

2559
01:36:18,870 --> 01:36:16,880
lori

2560
01:36:20,790 --> 01:36:18,880
you pointed out that the public doesn't

2561
01:36:22,310 --> 01:36:20,800
seem to be worried about the about the

2562
01:36:25,030 --> 01:36:22,320
asteroid threat

2563
01:36:27,270 --> 01:36:25,040
and i like your thoughts and uh um

2564
01:36:30,390 --> 01:36:27,280
how much that perception might be

2565
01:36:32,790 --> 01:36:30,400
influenced uh by the storyline that you

2566
01:36:36,709 --> 01:36:32,800
you see in all these popular

2567
01:36:39,109 --> 01:36:36,719
movies and and fiction stories that uh

2568
01:36:41,350 --> 01:36:39,119
that uh as you pointed out the public

2569
01:36:43,430 --> 01:36:41,360
seems to think nasa has all this money

2570
01:36:46,470 --> 01:36:43,440
uh and we can do anything you know we

2571
01:36:48,070 --> 01:36:46,480
can land a 110 spacecraft on on on the

2572
01:36:50,709 --> 01:36:48,080
surface of mars

2573
01:36:53,109 --> 01:36:50,719
uh and the storyline always gets to a

2574
01:36:54,870 --> 01:36:53,119
happy ending you know that nasa might be

2575
01:36:56,229 --> 01:36:54,880
trials and tribulations but we always

2576
01:36:58,950 --> 01:36:56,239
save the day

2577
01:37:00,709 --> 01:36:58,960
and so how much do you think uh

2578
01:37:05,910 --> 01:37:00,719
public perception

2579
01:37:07,189 --> 01:37:05,920
uh always the happy ending to the to the

2580
01:37:09,350 --> 01:37:07,199
to the movie

2581
01:37:11,910 --> 01:37:09,360
well um it's it's a little bit more

2582
01:37:15,189 --> 01:37:11,920
complex than that in the sense that i i

2583
01:37:17,910 --> 01:37:15,199
i am using those examples to read public

2584
01:37:20,629 --> 01:37:17,920
perception so i don't think they are

2585
01:37:23,030 --> 01:37:20,639
driving public perception i think it's a

2586
01:37:24,950 --> 01:37:23,040
feedback loop where as an audience this

2587
01:37:27,830 --> 01:37:24,960
is what we expect and so that's what

2588
01:37:30,070 --> 01:37:27,840
hollywood gives us so um

2589
01:37:32,229 --> 01:37:30,080
you know i i think that

2590
01:37:34,310 --> 01:37:32,239
so so you think there's this expectation

2591
01:37:35,830 --> 01:37:34,320
on the public that nasa is going to be

2592
01:37:37,030 --> 01:37:35,840
there to save the day

2593
01:37:40,790 --> 01:37:37,040
oh yes

2594
01:37:42,629 --> 01:37:40,800
the nests of the things that nasa does

2595
01:37:44,629 --> 01:37:42,639
they're surprised every time you know

2596
01:37:47,030 --> 01:37:44,639
the general public that's not that

2597
01:37:48,870 --> 01:37:47,040
doesn't follow space all that well

2598
01:37:50,310 --> 01:37:48,880
that kind of segment on the public but i

2599
01:37:52,550 --> 01:37:50,320
think if they

2600
01:37:54,709 --> 01:37:52,560
knew that that threat was coming they

2601
01:37:57,669 --> 01:37:54,719
would think they would be pretty sure

2602
01:38:09,109 --> 01:37:57,679
they would bet that nasa would solve it

2603
01:38:13,189 --> 01:38:11,030
it's always an interesting bar a

2604
01:38:14,229 --> 01:38:13,199
conversation when i tell people what i

2605
01:38:15,189 --> 01:38:14,239
do and

2606
01:38:17,669 --> 01:38:15,199
and

2607
01:38:19,590 --> 01:38:17,679
they talk about uh you know well nasa's

2608
01:38:21,910 --> 01:38:19,600
you know obviously got the uh

2609
01:38:23,590 --> 01:38:21,920
wherewithal and the material to you know

2610
01:38:25,750 --> 01:38:23,600
to prevent this and

2611
01:38:27,270 --> 01:38:25,760
and uh uh it's always an interesting

2612
01:38:28,070 --> 01:38:27,280
perception from them when i tell them

2613
01:38:31,109 --> 01:38:28,080
that

2614
01:38:33,669 --> 01:38:31,119
no we really we really don't at best we

2615
01:38:35,350 --> 01:38:33,679
might be able to find them right now

2616
01:38:37,109 --> 01:38:35,360
i think though it's clear that um the

2617
01:38:39,189 --> 01:38:37,119
public perception is that nasa has a

2618
01:38:41,669 --> 01:38:39,199
whole lot of really smart people

2619
01:38:43,750 --> 01:38:41,679
and if they discover an asteroid coming

2620
01:38:45,590 --> 01:38:43,760
in that nasa would marshal its resources

2621
01:38:47,669 --> 01:38:45,600
and put all those real smart people on

2622
01:38:48,950 --> 01:38:47,679
on the subject and try to get something

2623
01:38:51,030 --> 01:38:48,960
done

2624
01:38:52,950 --> 01:38:51,040
and i talk about this a lot in public

2625
01:38:54,149 --> 01:38:52,960
lectures and um

2626
01:38:56,229 --> 01:38:54,159
you know even though one of your

2627
01:38:58,629 --> 01:38:56,239
conclusions was that education is not

2628
01:39:00,870 --> 01:38:58,639
the answer i think that was sort of what

2629
01:39:02,070 --> 01:39:00,880
you said i found that people honestly

2630
01:39:04,470 --> 01:39:02,080
don't know

2631
01:39:05,510 --> 01:39:04,480
about things like comet impacts asteroid

2632
01:39:07,109 --> 01:39:05,520
impacts

2633
01:39:08,870 --> 01:39:07,119
they get those little wake-up calls like

2634
01:39:11,590 --> 01:39:08,880
you said and then they kind of drift

2635
01:39:13,990 --> 01:39:11,600
back into complacency but i do want to

2636
01:39:15,510 --> 01:39:14,000
say that you know there were things that

2637
01:39:17,750 --> 01:39:15,520
were threats and i want to make this

2638
01:39:20,390 --> 01:39:17,760
analogy and maybe have you comment on it

2639
01:39:22,149 --> 01:39:20,400
um people didn't used to wear seat belts

2640
01:39:23,189 --> 01:39:22,159
ever like when i was a kid you know

2641
01:39:25,270 --> 01:39:23,199
throw all the kids in the back of the

2642
01:39:26,870 --> 01:39:25,280
car and drive off but now everybody

2643
01:39:29,030 --> 01:39:26,880
wears seat belts all right because we've

2644
01:39:31,669 --> 01:39:29,040
learned that it is important for saving

2645
01:39:34,149 --> 01:39:31,679
lives do you think there's an analogy

2646
01:39:35,830 --> 01:39:34,159
one once my conclusion was not that we

2647
01:39:38,070 --> 01:39:35,840
should stop the education effort please

2648
01:39:39,590 --> 01:39:38,080
please let me clarify that i think nasa

2649
01:39:41,270 --> 01:39:39,600
should continue to educate because we

2650
01:39:42,709 --> 01:39:41,280
have to because the learned society is a

2651
01:39:45,430 --> 01:39:42,719
worthy goal and you know we have to

2652
01:39:47,990 --> 01:39:45,440
continue that but i i what i meant to

2653
01:39:50,149 --> 01:39:48,000
say was that if the goal is to drive

2654
01:39:51,830 --> 01:39:50,159
public policy change

2655
01:39:54,070 --> 01:39:51,840
then you know you may find that

2656
01:39:55,669 --> 01:39:54,080
education may not lead you to that

2657
01:39:57,750 --> 01:39:55,679
education in and of itself will be a

2658
01:40:00,229 --> 01:39:57,760
worthy goal but maybe it won't lead to

2659
01:40:02,790 --> 01:40:00,239
the public policy change that you want

2660
01:40:04,550 --> 01:40:02,800
that that was the point um but also on

2661
01:40:06,950 --> 01:40:04,560
the thread again it's this very unique

2662
01:40:09,109 --> 01:40:06,960
thread it's not car collisions it's not

2663
01:40:11,270 --> 01:40:09,119
you will see accident we've all seen car

2664
01:40:14,470 --> 01:40:11,280
accidents we have not all seen

2665
01:40:16,950 --> 01:40:14,480
a really um big catastrophic asteroid

2666
01:40:18,550 --> 01:40:16,960
people had seen an asteroid but not not

2667
01:40:20,790 --> 01:40:18,560
you know not one that will scare you

2668
01:40:22,070 --> 01:40:20,800
don't connect the two yeah so you know

2669
01:40:23,830 --> 01:40:22,080
in the literature you will find that

2670
01:40:26,310 --> 01:40:23,840
scientists are very aware of you know

2671
01:40:28,070 --> 01:40:26,320
crying wolf and if they start

2672
01:40:29,510 --> 01:40:28,080
saying you know blowing up the threat

2673
01:40:31,590 --> 01:40:29,520
and saying that you know

2674
01:40:33,590 --> 01:40:31,600
comets and asteroids do impact the earth

2675
01:40:35,990 --> 01:40:33,600
every day and you know therefore a real

2676
01:40:37,590 --> 01:40:36,000
big impact can come at any moment um you

2677
01:40:39,430 --> 01:40:37,600
know they could be crying wolf and the

2678
01:40:41,270 --> 01:40:39,440
public may not like that because then

2679
01:40:43,430 --> 01:40:41,280
they will be proven wrong and and they

2680
01:40:45,350 --> 01:40:43,440
may not believe that message so it's

2681
01:40:47,189 --> 01:40:45,360
again it's also not saying that that

2682
01:40:48,950 --> 01:40:47,199
that effort should be discontinued but

2683
01:40:50,629 --> 01:40:48,960
it's that there's a challenge there and

2684
01:40:52,390 --> 01:40:50,639
that i don't think that just talking

2685
01:40:54,709 --> 01:40:52,400
about the issue and trying to explain it

2686
01:40:56,070 --> 01:40:54,719
the best way you can will solve that

2687
01:40:58,229 --> 01:40:56,080
yeah i just want to make sure i bring

2688
01:41:00,310 --> 01:40:58,239
linda in discussion by mentioning the

2689
01:41:02,550 --> 01:41:00,320
andromeda strain you know where we

2690
01:41:08,070 --> 01:41:02,560
combine the impacts and the microbes

2691
01:41:11,590 --> 01:41:09,510
there's a small

2692
01:41:13,590 --> 01:41:11,600
credible body of research and science

2693
01:41:16,390 --> 01:41:13,600
and risk communication that

2694
01:41:18,470 --> 01:41:16,400
explains how

2695
01:41:21,510 --> 01:41:18,480
informing and educating

2696
01:41:23,669 --> 01:41:21,520
non-expert audiences about

2697
01:41:26,629 --> 01:41:23,679
science and risk

2698
01:41:29,350 --> 01:41:26,639
may not have the effect that you desire

2699
01:41:32,229 --> 01:41:29,360
in other words the more informed that a

2700
01:41:34,070 --> 01:41:32,239
non-expert becomes about a scientific or

2701
01:41:35,430 --> 01:41:34,080
technological issue

2702
01:41:39,669 --> 01:41:35,440
that

2703
01:41:41,669 --> 01:41:39,679
is a potential hazard or risk

2704
01:41:43,109 --> 01:41:41,679
the more they may decide this is the

2705
01:41:45,430 --> 01:41:43,119
problem they don't want to deal with it

2706
01:41:47,830 --> 01:41:45,440
could go you know it could go either way

2707
01:41:49,669 --> 01:41:47,840
so my feeling personally as a scholar

2708
01:41:51,510 --> 01:41:49,679
and as a citizen i think that it's an

2709
01:41:53,109 --> 01:41:51,520
obligation

2710
01:41:54,950 --> 01:41:53,119
on the part of

2711
01:41:57,270 --> 01:41:54,960
federal agencies and federally funded

2712
01:41:59,109 --> 01:41:57,280
researchers like myself

2713
01:42:00,709 --> 01:41:59,119
to inform anybody who wants to know

2714
01:42:02,709 --> 01:42:00,719
about the work that we do everything we

2715
01:42:04,950 --> 01:42:02,719
do know it's you know we're doing this

2716
01:42:07,350 --> 01:42:04,960
in the public interest but

2717
01:42:09,750 --> 01:42:07,360
education is not the key

2718
01:42:10,870 --> 01:42:09,760
it doesn't solve all your problems

2719
01:42:12,870 --> 01:42:10,880
question

2720
01:42:15,430 --> 01:42:12,880
hi thank you my name is steve williams

2721
01:42:17,990 --> 01:42:15,440
i'm i work in jim green shop as the epo

2722
01:42:19,430 --> 01:42:18,000
guy but i'm my i'm a detailee from the

2723
01:42:20,870 --> 01:42:19,440
national air space museum where i was

2724
01:42:22,310 --> 01:42:20,880
chair of education

2725
01:42:24,550 --> 01:42:22,320
so i've been working for the last 10

2726
01:42:26,790 --> 01:42:24,560
years with the general public and i

2727
01:42:29,510 --> 01:42:26,800
really wanted to resonate on

2728
01:42:31,109 --> 01:42:29,520
the discussion going back to greg and

2729
01:42:32,550 --> 01:42:31,119
some of the previous uh

2730
01:42:34,550 --> 01:42:32,560
responses

2731
01:42:36,470 --> 01:42:34,560
in how the public uh how we deal with

2732
01:42:39,270 --> 01:42:36,480
the public we are trying to drive

2733
01:42:42,870 --> 01:42:39,280
public perceptions okay we do a great

2734
01:42:44,709 --> 01:42:42,880
job with the specialist to be in their

2735
01:42:46,470 --> 01:42:44,719
educational process our good students

2736
01:42:47,590 --> 01:42:46,480
are as good as they ever were and

2737
01:42:49,910 --> 01:42:47,600
they're as

2738
01:42:52,229 --> 01:42:49,920
plentiful as they ever were but we're

2739
01:42:53,590 --> 01:42:52,239
doing a progressively less good job in

2740
01:42:55,189 --> 01:42:53,600
my opinion

2741
01:42:57,830 --> 01:42:55,199
in dealing with the public

2742
01:42:59,350 --> 01:42:57,840
uh in in the non-specialist now let's

2743
01:43:02,470 --> 01:42:59,360
see in a private universe and some of

2744
01:43:04,550 --> 01:43:02,480
these other things uh jaywalking

2745
01:43:05,750 --> 01:43:04,560
there are people who most people at

2746
01:43:08,390 --> 01:43:05,760
least in the united states have a

2747
01:43:10,709 --> 01:43:08,400
fundamental misunderstanding of basic

2748
01:43:13,189 --> 01:43:10,719
science and if you're going to use a

2749
01:43:14,390 --> 01:43:13,199
risk assessment argument uh you're

2750
01:43:16,470 --> 01:43:14,400
talking to people who live on the san

2751
01:43:17,510 --> 01:43:16,480
andreas fault in the shadow of mount st

2752
01:43:18,390 --> 01:43:17,520
helens

2753
01:43:20,470 --> 01:43:18,400
and

2754
01:43:22,390 --> 01:43:20,480
who actually believe that if they roll

2755
01:43:24,870 --> 01:43:22,400
sevens three times in a row they're

2756
01:43:26,550 --> 01:43:24,880
never gonna roll a 7 again

2757
01:43:28,310 --> 01:43:26,560
you know las vegas pays a lot of

2758
01:43:29,750 --> 01:43:28,320
electrical bills on these kinds of

2759
01:43:31,189 --> 01:43:29,760
misperceptions

2760
01:43:32,950 --> 01:43:31,199
so

2761
01:43:35,109 --> 01:43:32,960
my point is that

2762
01:43:36,550 --> 01:43:35,119
we have to do the same thing any kind of

2763
01:43:38,629 --> 01:43:36,560
a mass

2764
01:43:40,550 --> 01:43:38,639
audience entertainment thing does the

2765
01:43:43,510 --> 01:43:40,560
reason that they have the little kid

2766
01:43:46,709 --> 01:43:43,520
with a crummy telescope discover the

2767
01:43:48,709 --> 01:43:46,719
killer asteroid is because the audience

2768
01:43:51,109 --> 01:43:48,719
would never identify with a real

2769
01:43:53,669 --> 01:43:51,119
scientist doing a real study using real

2770
01:43:55,430 --> 01:43:53,679
equipment that's foreign to them

2771
01:43:56,149 --> 01:43:55,440
they've got to feel like they're part of

2772
01:43:58,709 --> 01:43:56,159
the

2773
01:44:01,430 --> 01:43:58,719
participatory exploration process in

2774
01:44:03,350 --> 01:44:01,440
learning as well as space exploration

2775
01:44:05,350 --> 01:44:03,360
in our day the baby boomers i'll be

2776
01:44:08,149 --> 01:44:05,360
quick i

2777
01:44:10,229 --> 01:44:08,159
wanted to use role models to stimulate

2778
01:44:11,350 --> 01:44:10,239
their imaginations but young people

2779
01:44:12,550 --> 01:44:11,360
today

2780
01:44:15,030 --> 01:44:12,560
don't do that

2781
01:44:17,510 --> 01:44:15,040
they're more attuned to mechanical

2782
01:44:19,030 --> 01:44:17,520
assistance electronic assistance to the

2783
01:44:21,430 --> 01:44:19,040
exploration process

2784
01:44:23,510 --> 01:44:21,440
so by approaching it that way and the

2785
01:44:24,709 --> 01:44:23,520
social media is a big help with that

2786
01:44:27,350 --> 01:44:24,719
is a big deal

2787
01:44:30,790 --> 01:44:27,360
the one comment i feel that more than

2788
01:44:33,270 --> 01:44:30,800
any other since curiosity added was

2789
01:44:35,430 --> 01:44:33,280
how cool is nasa these days they landed

2790
01:44:37,990 --> 01:44:35,440
a one ton craft on mars and one of the

2791
01:44:39,270 --> 01:44:38,000
guys that did it was wearing a mohawk

2792
01:44:41,189 --> 01:44:39,280
okay

2793
01:44:43,189 --> 01:44:41,199
never mind any of the science

2794
01:44:44,149 --> 01:44:43,199
they could identify with that and that's

2795
01:44:45,109 --> 01:44:44,159
what i would like to leave you with

2796
01:44:47,510 --> 01:44:45,119
sorry

2797
01:44:48,390 --> 01:44:47,520
now we have time for just two very brief

2798
01:44:51,109 --> 01:44:48,400
comments

2799
01:44:53,430 --> 01:44:51,119
or questions would be even better

2800
01:44:56,149 --> 01:44:53,440
please okay i just thought it'd be might

2801
01:44:58,870 --> 01:44:56,159
be useful to add a couple of numbers to

2802
01:45:01,750 --> 01:44:58,880
the conversation that uh

2803
01:45:03,990 --> 01:45:01,760
much of the conversation in this entire

2804
01:45:05,590 --> 01:45:04,000
session has been limited to the united

2805
01:45:07,750 --> 01:45:05,600
states

2806
01:45:10,070 --> 01:45:07,760
but there is a self-selected

2807
01:45:13,830 --> 01:45:10,080
group of people out there members of the

2808
01:45:16,709 --> 01:45:13,840
planetary society in 100 countries the

2809
01:45:18,790 --> 01:45:16,719
planetary society exploded from nothing

2810
01:45:21,430 --> 01:45:18,800
to a hundred thousand members at its

2811
01:45:24,149 --> 01:45:21,440
founding uh they're not that many now

2812
01:45:27,750 --> 01:45:24,159
but they're still in a hundred countries

2813
01:45:30,390 --> 01:45:27,760
uh and uh cost them forty five dollars a

2814
01:45:31,990 --> 01:45:30,400
year if they're not in the u.s 35 if

2815
01:45:33,189 --> 01:45:32,000
they're here i think

2816
01:45:34,950 --> 01:45:33,199
but

2817
01:45:37,669 --> 01:45:34,960
i think it's relevant

2818
01:45:40,629 --> 01:45:37,679
to the whole conversation

2819
01:45:41,750 --> 01:45:40,639
to introduce the international element

2820
01:45:43,590 --> 01:45:41,760
here

2821
01:45:46,070 --> 01:45:43,600
the other thing i've been involved in

2822
01:45:48,709 --> 01:45:46,080
since i retired from jpl is the

2823
01:45:50,790 --> 01:45:48,719
international space university

2824
01:45:53,910 --> 01:45:50,800
which just celebrated its 25th

2825
01:45:56,709 --> 01:45:53,920
anniversary over across town

2826
01:45:59,030 --> 01:45:56,719
i'd like to see the conversation

2827
01:46:02,550 --> 01:45:59,040
continue to include

2828
01:46:04,310 --> 01:46:02,560
this other public that's out there

2829
01:46:06,470 --> 01:46:04,320
i realize that they don't have as much

2830
01:46:09,189 --> 01:46:06,480
influence perhaps no influence on what

2831
01:46:11,030 --> 01:46:09,199
happens in congress or whatever

2832
01:46:13,350 --> 01:46:11,040
but they are important because they're

2833
01:46:15,350 --> 01:46:13,360
supporters yep that's thank you very

2834
01:46:18,149 --> 01:46:15,360
much for those comments and uh you know

2835
01:46:20,629 --> 01:46:18,159
i i do want to echo that and and remark

2836
01:46:24,310 --> 01:46:20,639
that the planetary society's current

2837
01:46:27,430 --> 01:46:24,320
vision is to cultivate a global culture

2838
01:46:29,430 --> 01:46:27,440
that explores our earth and

2839
01:46:31,109 --> 01:46:29,440
other worlds so

2840
01:46:33,350 --> 01:46:31,119
the planter site is very much aware of

2841
01:46:35,750 --> 01:46:33,360
that and i encourage you all to

2842
01:46:37,830 --> 01:46:35,760
engage with that organization

2843
01:46:40,229 --> 01:46:37,840
yes please last question thank you honey

2844
01:46:43,030 --> 01:46:40,239
i'm john sykison from csiro this is to

2845
01:46:45,189 --> 01:46:43,040
to linda lin i just want to applaud your

2846
01:46:48,790 --> 01:46:45,199
efforts in

2847
01:46:50,629 --> 01:46:48,800
correcting the public record about the

2848
01:46:52,950 --> 01:46:50,639
the the bacteria that was found on the

2849
01:46:55,270 --> 01:46:52,960
apollo 12 camera

2850
01:46:57,030 --> 01:46:55,280
as someone who works at parks and has

2851
01:47:00,070 --> 01:46:57,040
been researching the role of the apollo

2852
01:47:01,030 --> 01:47:00,080
missions over the last decade and a half

2853
01:47:03,669 --> 01:47:01,040
um

2854
01:47:04,709 --> 01:47:03,679
the film capricorn 1 has a lot to answer

2855
01:47:06,229 --> 01:47:04,719
for

2856
01:47:08,229 --> 01:47:06,239
and

2857
01:47:10,790 --> 01:47:08,239
you know once in the raid a narrative

2858
01:47:13,189 --> 01:47:10,800
takes hold in the public mind it's very

2859
01:47:14,709 --> 01:47:13,199
very difficult to to correct that

2860
01:47:16,470 --> 01:47:14,719
misconception

2861
01:47:18,470 --> 01:47:16,480
and um

2862
01:47:20,229 --> 01:47:18,480
and so any effort to correct the public

2863
01:47:22,470 --> 01:47:20,239
record and bring things back to the

2864
01:47:23,750 --> 01:47:22,480
truth is is fantastic and i applaud your

2865
01:47:25,590 --> 01:47:23,760
efforts on that

2866
01:47:28,070 --> 01:47:25,600
um also i think

2867
01:47:30,470 --> 01:47:28,080
nasa was founded partly to to boost

2868
01:47:31,990 --> 01:47:30,480
public morale in the united states and

2869
01:47:34,310 --> 01:47:32,000
and um

2870
01:47:36,790 --> 01:47:34,320
to demonstrate american

2871
01:47:38,550 --> 01:47:36,800
leadership um in science and technology

2872
01:47:39,990 --> 01:47:38,560
and in many ways it's become a victim of

2873
01:47:42,709 --> 01:47:40,000
its own success

2874
01:47:45,350 --> 01:47:42,719
um so you know when when something they

2875
01:47:48,070 --> 01:47:45,360
do nasa does do spectacular things like

2876
01:47:50,229 --> 01:47:48,080
land people on the on the moon and

2877
01:47:51,270 --> 01:47:50,239
rovers on mars and so on and so when

2878
01:47:52,870 --> 01:47:51,280
something

2879
01:47:55,830 --> 01:47:52,880
does threaten the earth

2880
01:47:57,750 --> 01:47:55,840
it's only natural that people go to the

2881
01:48:00,950 --> 01:47:57,760
to the organization that has a proven

2882
01:48:03,590 --> 01:48:00,960
record of success to do that and so um

2883
01:48:07,189 --> 01:48:03,600
um and it's i don't think it's a it's an

2884
01:48:09,189 --> 01:48:07,199
accident that deep impact in armageddon

2885
01:48:11,669 --> 01:48:09,199
appeared just two or three years after

2886
01:48:13,350 --> 01:48:11,679
the comet schumacher levy 9 impacts on

2887
01:48:15,830 --> 01:48:13,360
jupiter

2888
01:48:17,830 --> 01:48:15,840
and nasa's fantastic

2889
01:48:21,109 --> 01:48:17,840
pr in publicizing that to the world with

2890
01:48:24,310 --> 01:48:21,119
the hubble images and and so on um

2891
01:48:27,350 --> 01:48:24,320
so um you know i again i do applaud you

2892
01:48:29,669 --> 01:48:27,360
your efforts in in correcting that

2893
01:48:31,109 --> 01:48:29,679
that record thank you

2894
01:48:32,790 --> 01:48:31,119
i was having a little problem

2895
01:48:35,189 --> 01:48:32,800
coordinating my brain with my remote

2896
01:48:36,870 --> 01:48:35,199
finger and somehow other didn't show my

2897
01:48:38,390 --> 01:48:36,880
acknowledgement slide so there were a

2898
01:48:40,470 --> 01:48:38,400
lot of people who

2899
01:48:43,109 --> 01:48:40,480
collected the information i did a lot of

2900
01:48:45,510 --> 01:48:43,119
reading and a lot of research myself but

2901
01:48:46,950 --> 01:48:45,520
they're all acknowledged in the paper

2902
01:48:49,510 --> 01:48:46,960
so thank you all thank you to my

2903
01:48:56,149 --> 01:48:49,520
panelists and it's been very interesting

2904
01:49:00,390 --> 01:48:58,310
thank you heidi and the gang of three

2905
01:49:02,310 --> 01:49:00,400
pale but certainly not stale ladies that

2906
01:49:04,070 --> 01:49:02,320
was a very stimulating uh

2907
01:49:05,590 --> 01:49:04,080
conversation and in fact the whole the

2908
01:49:07,109 --> 01:49:05,600
whole day has been

2909
01:49:13,510 --> 01:49:07,119
i think we should thank all of our

2910
01:49:18,229 --> 01:49:15,669
so so bill asked me if i might say a few

2911
01:49:20,550 --> 01:49:18,239
words to kind of wrap up uh today as we

2912
01:49:22,629 --> 01:49:20,560
segue over to the reception here

2913
01:49:24,550 --> 01:49:22,639
and uh

2914
01:49:26,390 --> 01:49:24,560
my mind has been expanded i mean setting

2915
01:49:28,149 --> 01:49:26,400
aside the fact that i'm a member of the

2916
01:49:30,470 --> 01:49:28,159
you know the program committee that put

2917
01:49:33,030 --> 01:49:30,480
this together this has exceeded my

2918
01:49:35,189 --> 01:49:33,040
expectations uh tremendously

2919
01:49:37,350 --> 01:49:35,199
and i think the fact that everybody is

2920
01:49:39,189 --> 01:49:37,360
still glued to their seats since 8 30

2921
01:49:41,510 --> 01:49:39,199
this morning and still raring to go says

2922
01:49:43,189 --> 01:49:41,520
we probably all feel the same way

2923
01:49:45,430 --> 01:49:43,199
i don't know how you wrap up a day like

2924
01:49:47,990 --> 01:49:45,440
this because we've covered so much uh

2925
01:49:50,390 --> 01:49:48,000
territory and we've all learned so much

2926
01:49:52,070 --> 01:49:50,400
from it uh that it would probably take a

2927
01:49:55,510 --> 01:49:52,080
day to wrap the whole thing up you know

2928
01:49:57,350 --> 01:49:55,520
just the past day i did want to to share

2929
01:49:59,910 --> 01:49:57,360
with you one

2930
01:50:02,070 --> 01:49:59,920
major insight that i got from from

2931
01:50:04,950 --> 01:50:02,080
today's conversations

2932
01:50:07,030 --> 01:50:04,960
that i didn't really appreciate up until

2933
01:50:09,030 --> 01:50:07,040
today and i say that in spite of the

2934
01:50:11,109 --> 01:50:09,040
fact that i've personally had a passion

2935
01:50:12,149 --> 01:50:11,119
for solar system exploration for all of

2936
01:50:14,310 --> 01:50:12,159
my life

2937
01:50:16,229 --> 01:50:14,320
in fact i have to tell the story

2938
01:50:17,189 --> 01:50:16,239
i was first uh

2939
01:50:19,270 --> 01:50:17,199
caught

2940
01:50:21,350 --> 01:50:19,280
i guess i should say bitten by the bug

2941
01:50:22,629 --> 01:50:21,360
of insatiable curiosity at the tender

2942
01:50:24,709 --> 01:50:22,639
age of seven

2943
01:50:25,990 --> 01:50:24,719
it was a starry summer night in rural

2944
01:50:27,750 --> 01:50:26,000
indiana

2945
01:50:30,310 --> 01:50:27,760
my brother and sister and i were in the

2946
01:50:32,070 --> 01:50:30,320
back seat of my dad's packard

2947
01:50:33,669 --> 01:50:32,080
convertible the top was down we were on

2948
01:50:36,229 --> 01:50:33,679
our way home from a drive-in movie

2949
01:50:38,149 --> 01:50:36,239
theater our heads were on the back you

2950
01:50:39,750 --> 01:50:38,159
know looking up at the starry skies that

2951
01:50:41,270 --> 01:50:39,760
you know the spectacular milky way

2952
01:50:42,390 --> 01:50:41,280
overhead because the skies were really

2953
01:50:45,830 --> 01:50:42,400
dark then

2954
01:50:47,430 --> 01:50:45,840
and heidi a spectacular bolide went

2955
01:50:49,589 --> 01:50:47,440
streaming overhead

2956
01:50:52,470 --> 01:50:49,599
exploded into two pieces with a loud

2957
01:50:53,910 --> 01:50:52,480
boom sparks flying out of it it was

2958
01:50:56,310 --> 01:50:53,920
unbelievable

2959
01:50:58,229 --> 01:50:56,320
so in unison i'm sure my brother and

2960
01:50:59,830 --> 01:50:58,239
sister and i all said the same thing dad

2961
01:51:02,229 --> 01:50:59,840
what was that

2962
01:51:04,950 --> 01:51:02,239
my father was a metallurgical engineer

2963
01:51:06,390 --> 01:51:04,960
and a great fan of science fiction and

2964
01:51:08,790 --> 01:51:06,400
we had been seeing science fiction

2965
01:51:10,790 --> 01:51:08,800
movies from a tender age but to his

2966
01:51:13,030 --> 01:51:10,800
credit he answered responsibly that

2967
01:51:15,109 --> 01:51:13,040
night

2968
01:51:16,229 --> 01:51:15,119
he said son i don't think it was a

2969
01:51:17,750 --> 01:51:16,239
spaceship

2970
01:51:20,550 --> 01:51:17,760
why don't we go to the library tomorrow

2971
01:51:22,229 --> 01:51:20,560
and we'll start researching it and i've

2972
01:51:24,149 --> 01:51:22,239
had this passion and i'm sure that

2973
01:51:25,109 --> 01:51:24,159
virtually everybody in this audience has

2974
01:51:28,229 --> 01:51:25,119
as well

2975
01:51:30,629 --> 01:51:28,239
so uh getting new insights you know at

2976
01:51:32,470 --> 01:51:30,639
this time at this phase of my career i'm

2977
01:51:35,669 --> 01:51:32,480
really impressed by that the thing that

2978
01:51:37,990 --> 01:51:35,679
really hit me today is

2979
01:51:40,390 --> 01:51:38,000
we all agree how fantastic it is what we

2980
01:51:43,270 --> 01:51:40,400
do but i've come to appreciate even more

2981
01:51:46,310 --> 01:51:43,280
just how tenuous our fate is and i think

2982
01:51:49,510 --> 01:51:46,320
that when jason uh callahan gave his

2983
01:51:51,430 --> 01:51:49,520
marvelous uh background this uh this

2984
01:51:53,030 --> 01:51:51,440
morning that's when it really hit me i

2985
01:51:55,030 --> 01:51:53,040
mean we've had the ups and downs we've

2986
01:51:57,669 --> 01:51:55,040
had the lost decade

2987
01:52:00,550 --> 01:51:57,679
and you know it really takes a perfect

2988
01:52:02,870 --> 01:52:00,560
alignment of three major constituencies

2989
01:52:04,390 --> 01:52:02,880
to keep us on this track we got the

2990
01:52:06,550 --> 01:52:04,400
folks who are the well they're they're

2991
01:52:09,510 --> 01:52:06,560
really for jim is right i'll get to the

2992
01:52:11,430 --> 01:52:09,520
fourth one in a minute one of them is

2993
01:52:12,709 --> 01:52:11,440
on capitol hill

2994
01:52:14,550 --> 01:52:12,719
another is at the other end of

2995
01:52:16,790 --> 01:52:14,560
pennsylvania avenue

2996
01:52:18,790 --> 01:52:16,800
there's a constituency within nasa the

2997
01:52:20,629 --> 01:52:18,800
senior leadership when they're all

2998
01:52:23,109 --> 01:52:20,639
aligned and the public the fourth is

2999
01:52:25,189 --> 01:52:23,119
behind all of this fantastic things

3000
01:52:27,350 --> 01:52:25,199
happen but what we have seen through the

3001
01:52:30,149 --> 01:52:27,360
history of the past 50 years is

3002
01:52:32,149 --> 01:52:30,159
most of the time they're not all aligned

3003
01:52:34,470 --> 01:52:32,159
and i've realized today from our

3004
01:52:36,229 --> 01:52:34,480
conversations that the thing that sees

3005
01:52:38,070 --> 01:52:36,239
us through those periods of time and the

3006
01:52:39,830 --> 01:52:38,080
reason that we're still here

3007
01:52:41,589 --> 01:52:39,840
is the leadership

3008
01:52:44,310 --> 01:52:41,599
that our community has produced the

3009
01:52:47,270 --> 01:52:44,320
people with the vision with the moxie

3010
01:52:49,510 --> 01:52:47,280
with the savvy the passion and i should

3011
01:52:51,430 --> 01:52:49,520
say the savvy to know how to use it in

3012
01:52:53,750 --> 01:52:51,440
order to beat back the odds and keep

3013
01:52:55,990 --> 01:52:53,760
things going most of them are actually

3014
01:52:56,790 --> 01:52:56,000
in this room here today or they have

3015
01:52:59,350 --> 01:52:56,800
been

3016
01:53:01,589 --> 01:52:59,360
and i personally want to say thank you

3017
01:53:03,109 --> 01:53:01,599
thank you very much and i'm looking at

3018
01:53:05,189 --> 01:53:03,119
two of them right now

3019
01:53:07,430 --> 01:53:05,199
for what you have done to keep this

3020
01:53:09,510 --> 01:53:07,440
enterprise alive and i think that as

3021
01:53:11,750 --> 01:53:09,520
long as we can continue to do the

3022
01:53:14,310 --> 01:53:11,760
exciting things that we have been doing

3023
01:53:16,070 --> 01:53:14,320
curiosity on mars all of the new things

3024
01:53:18,870 --> 01:53:16,080
that are in the pipeline we will

3025
01:53:20,950 --> 01:53:18,880
continue to inspire the next generation

3026
01:53:22,470 --> 01:53:20,960
of leaders like the folks in this room

3027
01:53:24,310 --> 01:53:22,480
who will keep us going that's what we're

3028
01:53:26,629 --> 01:53:24,320
going to need because times are going to

3029
01:53:28,149 --> 01:53:26,639
be tough and we got to keep doing the

3030
01:53:30,709 --> 01:53:28,159
exciting stuff

3031
01:53:34,709 --> 01:53:32,470
i wanted to say one other thing i mean

3032
01:53:37,189 --> 01:53:34,719
this has been a magical day for a lot of

3033
01:53:38,629 --> 01:53:37,199
reasons but i think several of us

3034
01:53:41,830 --> 01:53:38,639
commented before that when you put

3035
01:53:44,070 --> 01:53:41,840
together historians and sociologists and

3036
01:53:45,430 --> 01:53:44,080
scientists really cool things happen who

3037
01:53:47,990 --> 01:53:45,440
would have thought

3038
01:53:51,189 --> 01:53:48,000
and i think we owe a big debt of

3039
01:53:53,669 --> 01:53:51,199
gratitude to nasa's chief historian bill

3040
01:54:01,189 --> 01:53:53,679
berry and the national aerospace museum

3041
01:54:05,910 --> 01:54:03,189
who had the vision to bring together

3042
01:54:07,189 --> 01:54:05,920
this diverse eclectic group of people we

3043
01:54:08,709 --> 01:54:07,199
were starting to think about doing

3044
01:54:09,910 --> 01:54:08,719
something out in pasadena wait a minute

3045
01:54:11,430 --> 01:54:09,920
just a bunch of scientists sitting

3046
01:54:13,990 --> 01:54:11,440
around talking you guys have really made

3047
01:54:18,950 --> 01:54:14,000
this thing successful and i thank you

3048
01:54:22,229 --> 01:54:20,550
i'll take the second to disavow any

3049
01:54:23,910 --> 01:54:22,239
credit for uh this thing is a it's a

3050
01:54:25,270 --> 01:54:23,920
very big team effort so thanks to

3051
01:54:26,390 --> 01:54:25,280
everybody for the help

3052
01:54:27,990 --> 01:54:26,400
um

3053
01:54:29,430 --> 01:54:28,000
two quick announcements one there's been

3054
01:54:31,109 --> 01:54:29,440
a lot of talk about planetary protection

3055
01:54:32,870 --> 01:54:31,119
this afternoon we actually produced a

3056
01:54:35,430 --> 01:54:32,880
book about planetary protection last

3057
01:54:37,750 --> 01:54:35,440
year called when biospheres collide in

3058
01:54:39,510 --> 01:54:37,760
the mass history program and i'm sorry

3059
01:54:40,550 --> 01:54:39,520
that i didn't think to bring some copies

3060
01:54:41,589 --> 01:54:40,560
over because we have some copies of

3061
01:54:43,270 --> 01:54:41,599
other books we've done so we'll try and

3062
01:54:44,629 --> 01:54:43,280
get some copies of planet that planetary

3063
01:54:46,149 --> 01:54:44,639
protection book over here tomorrow

3064
01:54:47,030 --> 01:54:46,159
anybody wants a copy feel free to help

3065
01:54:48,790 --> 01:54:47,040
yourself

3066
01:54:50,950 --> 01:54:48,800
okay so it paid announcement about our

3067
01:54:53,750 --> 01:54:50,960
products over with let's turn to the

3068
01:54:55,270 --> 01:54:53,760
reception those of you who

3069
01:54:57,270 --> 01:54:55,280
sign up for the reception you're welcome

3070
01:54:58,390 --> 01:54:57,280
to join us on the far side of the lobby

3071
01:54:59,510 --> 01:54:58,400
over there in the space experience

3072
01:55:01,830 --> 01:54:59,520
center

3073
01:55:03,270 --> 01:55:01,840
you'll be given a ticket for a drink and

3074
01:55:04,470 --> 01:55:03,280
if you want more than one drink you have

3075
01:55:06,149 --> 01:55:04,480
to buy it yourself there'll be a cash

3076
01:55:09,189 --> 01:55:06,159
bar available there

3077
01:55:11,350 --> 01:55:09,199
if you're a civil servant and you've

3078
01:55:13,990 --> 01:55:11,360
accepted more than 50 worth of things

3079
01:55:15,270 --> 01:55:14,000
from lockheed martin in the last year

3080
01:55:18,310 --> 01:55:15,280
you should

3081
01:55:20,709 --> 01:55:18,320
hand some money over to um kelly wants

3082
01:55:22,390 --> 01:55:20,719
to stand up for us

3083
01:55:23,430 --> 01:55:22,400
kelly victor french specter our intern

3084
01:55:24,390 --> 01:55:23,440
is going to be manning the table and

3085
01:55:25,990 --> 01:55:24,400
there'll be some of the folks over there

3086
01:55:27,990 --> 01:55:26,000
too they'll be happy to take cash or a

3087
01:55:29,589 --> 01:55:28,000
check from you to cover any difference

3088
01:55:31,510 --> 01:55:29,599
there or if you or if you're a political

3089
01:55:32,870 --> 01:55:31,520
appointee and you're required to do that

3090
01:55:34,070 --> 01:55:32,880
the rules have changed a lot thanks to

3091
01:55:35,350 --> 01:55:34,080
our friends

3092
01:55:36,790 --> 01:55:35,360
who have had some issues with the

3093
01:55:38,550 --> 01:55:36,800
conferences in the last couple years so

3094
01:55:41,189 --> 01:55:38,560
please be careful about it

3095
01:55:42,870 --> 01:55:41,199
attending to those issues